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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin

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will assure host and we got another

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great show for you this evening we have

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William or a bill as he likes to be

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called Grabowski he's going to be

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talking about he has a he had a number

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one seller on Amazon and backlight it

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was called perspectives on mysterious

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phenomena and we're gonna be talking all

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about that his interest in UFOs and a

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lot more for all of those out there that

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celebrate Christmas merry Christmas to

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you that's coming up in just two days

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that's why we're a day early here we are

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going to be doing that next week as well

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and that way the radio station is not

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going to be playing on New Year's Eve or

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tomorrow night on Christmas Eve so we're

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gonna get them the file early next week

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this week again I told you it's built

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dubrovsky next week is going to be

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another interesting show it's going to

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be about all about Star Trek

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now for those Trekkies out there it

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should be interesting I'm gonna pull up

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the name right here in just a second of

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who we have we have two two people on

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was actually a place Captain Kirk and

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I'm sorry my computer's just a little

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bit slow here and his name is Mark I

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just can't pull up his last name

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he's in the the new Star Trek that just

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has come out recently and they his the

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co-host for that show that's going to be

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with him Co guest I should say is

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someone that has written a book recently

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also and I see these people without

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their names on it right here right in

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front of me it's pretty funny

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I know isn't that funny I just have

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their pictures right here anyway it's a

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it's Star Trek continues that's who he

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plays Captain Kirk is going to be on

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that and the book it's actually an audio

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book I believe it's called these are the

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voyages and Mark Cushman and Vic that

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know that who is good that's who's gonna

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be on the show next week

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so tune in for that again merry

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Christmas to everyone out there who

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celebrates happy holidays and all that

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it's a wonderful time of year it's

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actually pretty warm here in Maine

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seasonably warm gotta love that

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and in this second hour we will be

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taking calls tonight so we're not on kgr

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a radio live this week so we'll be

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taking calls at the old number that will

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be posted and if you want to write that

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down if you're listening on YouTube

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right now I will have it on the screen

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but it is 603 967 403 Oh again that'll

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be up in the second hour I guess it's

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time to well let me just just a couple

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of other things real quickly

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Alejandro couldn't make the show tonight

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once again but he did say Merry

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Christmas to everyone out there and

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hopefully he'll be on if not if

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Alejandro doesn't come back we're not

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fighting

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he's not ill or anything like that has

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nothing to do with anything that people

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are speculating that are writing me it's

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just that he has he has just at this

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time decided that he didn't want to be

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on Dino he was on coast to coast the

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other night but anyway hopefully he'll

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be back if not we may do something

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different down the line I'm not really

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sure as far as UFO news goes that I do

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want to thank everyone that helps out

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with the show and support the show

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anyone can do that all you have to do is

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go over to podcast UFO Kham Kham and

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you'll see the information over there

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there's also a patreon site and you can

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listen to the full two hour show

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if you just help us out we also have a

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blog up Charles Lea wrote a blog for

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this week and it's called the UFO

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archives of the University of Manitoba

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and that's about Chuck Rakowski chris

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wachowsky that is who has donated a lot

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of UFO material to the University of

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Manitoba so check out that blog on

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podcast UFO comm over at Facebook we

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have new stories posted by Peggy almost

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every single day regarding UFOs and

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space check it out recently I've been

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getting some email from listeners about

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the arts part says there used to be

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called how they may be just like

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radiator materials now I don't want to

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lead anyone astray or wrong or anything

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I know Linda Moulton Howe was involved

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or has the materials or had the

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materials to the stars Academy also had

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some type of involvement it seems like

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at least part of that could be just

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simple foil from a car radiator but I

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don't know about any of the other

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materials

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I think the chain of ownership is kind

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of iffy on that whole a lot of stuff I

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don't really have too much more as far

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as what I've been hearing from listeners

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as far as all that goes I do know that

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also Palmer has sent me a couple of UFO

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stories he helps out quite a bit with

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stories in that there was another

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witness that has come forward on the USS

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Nimitz case another pilot

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I believe that's so I don't have any of

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the details there but but hopefully I'll

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have some more information on that next

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week and I think that's enough for me

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right now

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so let's call in our I guess our guest

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bill welcome to the show thanks for

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having me on Martin yes you were on a

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long time ago with I I was actually I

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had surgery and I was out and Michael

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oak who filled in for me so I think that

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was what was that four years ago or

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something like that excuse me that was

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September 2015

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yeah yeah well time is flying yeah yeah

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so anyway for the a lot of people are

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not familiar with you and your work if

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you would could you please give our

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listening audience an idea of who you

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are and you know your background and

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your what sparked your interest in this

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topic well the whole interest began

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aside from the usual growing up in the

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are coming the age rather like in the

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60s and early 70s and in Northeast Ohio

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and you know usually usually kids my age

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you know we grew up watching Star Trek

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and all the science fictional movies and

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stuff horror movies but in my case the

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direct influence came from something to

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happen to me when I was 10 years old and

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living in a more Northeast Ohio suburb

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called Solon Ohio which it's about 15

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miles southeast of Cleveland and this

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was in June it was very hot out my

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father had built an above-ground pool

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one of those like aluminum deals yeah I

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don't know maybe was like like 15 feet

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in diameter and we had a we had a shed a

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plywood shed out there are changing shed

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and I was going out to swim and I came

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some some sort of a bird that looked

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like it was about 3 or 4 feet tall and

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had a straight pointed beak and I knew

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enough from seeing these this like Kiwi

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brand boot polish as bizarre as it

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sounds and this is what this bird looked

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like it had black beady eyes and a long

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straight pointed beak and I didn't know

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what to make of it so I just stood there

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looking at it and it it started to walk

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toward me I freaked out and ran inside

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my mother was there she wanted to know

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what happened because by that point I

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was very upset she thought that that

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made me someone have gotten a hold of me

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and tried to molest me or something and

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she went out there and didn't see it

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and then lay it later on the day my

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father came home and we were in the

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basement I was still upset he got me a

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new pair of boots these were like

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Wellington cowboy boots and he said

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let's let's just shine you're trying

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your boots you know we'll you'll feel

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better so I was okay with that I'm 10

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years old and I'm still terrified and he

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took out the the boot polish with the

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Kiwi burn on and I said that's that's

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what I saw and he's going you saw this

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what are you talking about I said this

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back burn under cover there this polish

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that's what it resembled and he didn't

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know what to make of it he was he was he

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was upset and in retrospect I can tell

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he didn't want me to know how upset he

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was about whatever was that I saw and

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that that I don't know what you would

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call was that was that being traumatized

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I don't know maybe it was but that

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started my my interest and also not long

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after that there was the case of these

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police officers who chased the supposed

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UFO from Ravenna Ohio across the border

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into Pennsylvania and because of this

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apparently they they had gotten into a

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lot of trouble by even reporting it by

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by police authorities and one of the

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guys one of the officers who was

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involved in this chase

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he was very screwed up by it and he he

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actually just left he just dropped his

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whole life and he hid out in the solar

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motel in my hometown this was in the

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newspaper people were talking about it

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like did you hear about this

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his police officer who said he chased a

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UFO so it's just I'm just adding a few

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more stones to the pool like something

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was going on in the as you probably know

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there was a so-called UFO wave in the

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mid 60's oh yes I guess this was part of

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that but but anyhow between that that

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incident of seeing the strange bird that

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that happened to me pardon me and the

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this police police car chase but which I

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think what's be created

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and Close Encounters of the Third Kind

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in the beginning of the film that's what

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sparked my interest which became kind of

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you know obviously it became a lifelong

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interest enough to to write a book about

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it and and go from there

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have you ever personally talked to other

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people about any type of you know UFO

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encounters or anything like that yes I

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guess that you could say officially at

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like announcing myself as a as a writer

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the first time I ever really like

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interviewed people was in Point Pleasant

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West Virginia oh yeah the mop hands whoo

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exactly in 2003 and prior to that I had

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read and well even that long before that

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when I was in high school I read the

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Mothman Prophecies and of course we know

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that's a classic I came out in 1975 and

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when I was reading that I had kind of a

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I don't know a resurgence of this

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remembering this thing I saw right just

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this bird that could have very well been

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just an out of place bird I wasn't used

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to seeing or you know something else

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I don't know but reading qu'il brought

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that all back and then much much later

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on you know I'm still I'm still

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following you know the field reading

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reading the books I'm also reading the

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guys like Philip Glass you know the the

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who's the hardcore skeptic right mm-hmm

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and a few others and and then I'm

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reading more more of keel which

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eventually led me to I think I found out

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online about this this festival they had

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every year in Point Pleasant the mud the

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Mothman festival they figured out okay

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00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:24,149
here's a way to to help the town make

271
00:13:30,110 --> 00:13:26,610
money and because Point Pleasant is a

272
00:13:32,050 --> 00:13:30,120
small place and it's it's surrounded by

273
00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:32,060
a lot of Industry on the Ohio River

274
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:36,060
but this festival really really has

275
00:13:43,220 --> 00:13:39,839
taken off and to make a long story

276
00:13:49,009 --> 00:13:43,230
shorter yeah John keel was there

277
00:13:51,710 --> 00:13:49,019
in 2003 and that was knowing that he was

278
00:13:55,490 --> 00:13:51,720
going to be there that got me a go say I

279
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:55,500
met him briefly at that point he was

280
00:14:02,060 --> 00:13:57,690
almost completely blind I had no idea

281
00:14:03,769 --> 00:14:02,070
about that but he was in a small like I

282
00:14:06,050 --> 00:14:03,779
I guess it used to be just a regular

283
00:14:07,970 --> 00:14:06,060
shop and they made it so he could he

284
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:07,980
could have people file in there sign

285
00:14:12,379 --> 00:14:11,130
autographs and books and I don't know if

286
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:12,389
they weren't prepared for this or what

287
00:14:16,939 --> 00:14:14,610
but there were a lot of people getting

288
00:14:19,129 --> 00:14:16,949
his autograph and and this was shortly

289
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:19,139
after the movie version of Mothman

290
00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:20,000
Prophecies

291
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:22,769
came out so I'm obviously that gave it a

292
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:27,930
huge boost so I got to talk to him

293
00:14:32,449 --> 00:14:29,930
briefly took some photographs

294
00:14:34,430 --> 00:14:32,459
unfortunately not very good photographs

295
00:14:37,639 --> 00:14:34,440
because I was using a disposable camera

296
00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:37,649
but I did get to speak with some of the

297
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:40,470
original witnesses that he mentions in

298
00:14:47,329 --> 00:14:44,130
Mothman Prophecies and it turned out

299
00:14:49,370 --> 00:14:47,339
that the town was was still like it was

300
00:14:54,380 --> 00:14:49,380
in the year when these things happen in

301
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:54,390
66 and 67 still divided you know part of

302
00:14:57,199 --> 00:14:55,410
the town was like they seemed

303
00:14:59,449 --> 00:14:57,209
embarrassed yet based they still showed

304
00:15:01,040 --> 00:14:59,459
up for the festival right and then the

305
00:15:04,009 --> 00:15:01,050
other ones were like oh this this is all

306
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:04,019
completely true it ruined my family you

307
00:15:09,710 --> 00:15:06,890
know I drove my grandmother crazy and

308
00:15:12,019 --> 00:15:09,720
but but that's how the whole thing I

309
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:12,029
tell it was sustained with me anyway and

310
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:14,399
that was also what started this idea by

311
00:15:19,579 --> 00:15:16,410
writing a book it took me a long time to

312
00:15:22,490 --> 00:15:19,589
get that far though yeah yeah speaking

313
00:15:27,380 --> 00:15:22,500
of books you've written how many now has

314
00:15:30,439 --> 00:15:27,390
a visit nine right including black white

315
00:15:34,519 --> 00:15:30,449
is the only thus far non-fiction book

316
00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:34,529
all my other stuff is this fiction like

317
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:37,440
prime primarily dark fiction like horror

318
00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:40,639
and the darker aunt is a science fiction

319
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:45,240
cyberpunk spectrum and you have a cold

320
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:49,170
world that's an upcoming book that you

321
00:15:54,259 --> 00:15:50,850
expect coming up that's also going to be

322
00:15:57,010 --> 00:15:54,269
nonfiction right right that that is now

323
00:15:58,810 --> 00:15:57,020
that will be a it's related

324
00:16:01,660 --> 00:15:58,820
to backlight but a very different kind

325
00:16:03,329 --> 00:16:01,670
of book it's kind whereas black like to

326
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:03,339
be described as well it's a

327
00:16:10,210 --> 00:16:07,010
deconstruction of a view of the UFO

328
00:16:13,420 --> 00:16:10,220
field and paranormal and cold cold world

329
00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:13,430
is more like I don't want to say

330
00:16:19,870 --> 00:16:16,750
attacking but let's say it's a survey of

331
00:16:22,810 --> 00:16:19,880
current day philosophy like speculative

332
00:16:24,670 --> 00:16:22,820
realism and really about trying to dig

333
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:24,680
into what you could call the operating

334
00:16:30,370 --> 00:16:27,770
system of of reality and the world and

335
00:16:34,329 --> 00:16:30,380
at how much it's changed since since the

336
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:34,339
internet came to life yes that topic

337
00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:38,480
does come up on on the show has come up

338
00:16:44,650 --> 00:16:40,910
for instance number of times I've talked

339
00:16:45,790 --> 00:16:44,660
to old time researchers and say and have

340
00:16:50,139 --> 00:16:45,800
said to them you know what has happened

341
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:50,149
in the world of ufology since the

342
00:16:54,970 --> 00:16:52,250
internet you know came around one of the

343
00:16:58,980 --> 00:16:54,980
some of the changes there's the good and

344
00:17:06,790 --> 00:17:03,040
almost as many bad as I could good

345
00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:06,800
for instance CGI you know when it comes

346
00:17:16,809 --> 00:17:10,370
to YouTube and all that yeah there are a

347
00:17:20,740 --> 00:17:16,819
number of there is a there's a website

348
00:17:25,090 --> 00:17:20,750
devoted to the skepticism good

349
00:17:26,740 --> 00:17:25,100
skepticism of UFOs to keep you know more

350
00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:26,750
or less keep people honest I can't think

351
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:29,080
of the name of it right now but on that

352
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:32,480
what's that is that Robert Schaefer bad

353
00:17:38,350 --> 00:17:34,970
UFOs no I know who I know who that is

354
00:17:42,580 --> 00:17:38,360
actually I met him in Phoenix a few

355
00:17:45,010 --> 00:17:42,590
years ago this is this is actually I

356
00:17:47,950 --> 00:17:45,020
wish I could pull it up I send an email

357
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:47,960
to him ask him to if I could use some of

358
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:50,240
his information but I do believe that he

359
00:17:59,410 --> 00:17:55,450
had called out 64 YouTube channels that

360
00:18:02,500 --> 00:17:59,420
were sending out you know basically hoax

361
00:18:07,299 --> 00:18:02,510
videos in order to gain traffic in order

362
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:07,309
to make money to get quick and there was

363
00:18:12,990 --> 00:18:10,400
one channel supposedly that was making

364
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:13,000
you know several thousand dollars a week

365
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:16,250
just on you know fake YouTube videos out

366
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:19,760
there which is it's really a shame when

367
00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:22,370
it comes to someone that is trying to

368
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:24,980
take a serious look at you know what's

369
00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:27,610
going on and they get hung up on a

370
00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:30,830
couple of videos they find out later

371
00:18:34,690 --> 00:18:32,780
that are just fake and then they'll just

372
00:18:36,430 --> 00:18:34,700
go away they'll no longer have interest

373
00:18:38,890 --> 00:18:36,440
in it kind of perhaps you know this

374
00:18:43,870 --> 00:18:38,900
happens this happens way too much yeah

375
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:43,880
yeah nothing any one can do only you

376
00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:46,250
know perhaps call out when you see

377
00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:48,920
something like that and then also just

378
00:18:54,910 --> 00:18:51,680
keep our side of the road clean as they

379
00:18:58,300 --> 00:18:54,920
say and you know make sure that we don't

380
00:19:00,250 --> 00:18:58,310
ever give any gasoline to the fire of

381
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:00,260
any of the hint you know of any of the

382
00:19:04,570 --> 00:19:02,930
fraudulent stuff out there right right

383
00:19:06,820 --> 00:19:04,580
that's that's the best way and any has

384
00:19:08,770 --> 00:19:06,830
been said before but the burden of proof

385
00:19:11,860 --> 00:19:08,780
is on the people or putting these videos

386
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:11,870
up you know and they take I mean they

387
00:19:15,790 --> 00:19:13,490
have no choice really but to submit to

388
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:15,800
you know whatever analysis people like

389
00:19:19,180 --> 00:19:17,690
like me or you would apply to it but the

390
00:19:21,790 --> 00:19:19,190
burden of proof is on them because

391
00:19:24,940 --> 00:19:21,800
you're right with CGI I mean I've seen

392
00:19:27,310 --> 00:19:24,950
some videos I'm sure you have or they're

393
00:19:29,830 --> 00:19:27,320
incredible and you get transfixed and

394
00:19:31,870 --> 00:19:29,840
then you realize well okay I know a

395
00:19:33,910 --> 00:19:31,880
little bit about how CGI works and this

396
00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:33,920
is probably how this is done and and

397
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:36,710
then you know thank whatever's in charge

398
00:19:41,410 --> 00:19:39,410
usually someone shortly comes up with

399
00:19:43,180 --> 00:19:41,420
okay here's here's what this video is

400
00:19:45,220 --> 00:19:43,190
about here's how it probably was done

401
00:19:46,930 --> 00:19:45,230
and then they you know of course they

402
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:46,940
have to say here's why here's how we

403
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:52,720
know it's fake yeah yeah and I

404
00:20:00,810 --> 00:19:54,890
personally appreciate that I try to run

405
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:00,820
a show that you know we try to stay as

406
00:20:07,030 --> 00:20:03,770
solid as we possibly can on such an

407
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:07,040
unusual topic that is you know that we

408
00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:09,650
actually have no proof of what helpful

409
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:12,110
actually what is what it is that we're

410
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:15,170
seeing other than the fact that we're

411
00:20:20,620 --> 00:20:17,510
definitely seeing something you know

412
00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:20,630
right right and what your what's your

413
00:20:26,530 --> 00:20:23,990
feeling about what people are

414
00:20:28,180 --> 00:20:26,540
seeing I know I've heard you say

415
00:20:30,190 --> 00:20:28,190
something along the lines it doesn't

416
00:20:33,850 --> 00:20:30,200
mean that there's any proof that it's et

417
00:20:36,490 --> 00:20:33,860
and I agree with you I I just feel like

418
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:36,500
we have said this a number of times that

419
00:20:44,890 --> 00:20:39,650
that I feel like I know less about

420
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:44,900
the topic the more I get into it yeah I

421
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:47,450
I couldn't agree more and the only thing

422
00:20:53,140 --> 00:20:50,330
that hasn't changed about the way I feel

423
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:53,150
about it is I think that whatever it is

424
00:20:57,190 --> 00:20:55,370
the least likely thing is an

425
00:20:59,169 --> 00:20:57,200
extraterrestrial and I hopefully you

426
00:21:02,230 --> 00:20:59,179
didn't just lose like five thousand

427
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:02,240
listeners by me saying yes but but

428
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:05,570
somebody has to say it because people

429
00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:09,290
who are are easily manipulated and and

430
00:21:12,820 --> 00:21:10,670
usually it's through

431
00:21:15,850 --> 00:21:12,830
I know I know keel was big on an honest

432
00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:15,860
about the power of belief systems and on

433
00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:18,230
how they they have slowly-slowly

434
00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:20,809
I don't want to say completely but

435
00:21:26,169 --> 00:21:23,270
largely replaced like the religious

436
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:26,179
impulse and some people to we're not

437
00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:27,770
only and I found this on in Point

438
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:29,510
Pleasant not only do they believe some

439
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:32,570
stuff they need to believe it and if you

440
00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:34,970
get let's just say if you get cranky

441
00:21:38,049 --> 00:21:36,440
toward them and say you know what are

442
00:21:41,169 --> 00:21:38,059
you are you up you know are you a nut

443
00:21:43,390 --> 00:21:41,179
why would you believe this crap and they

444
00:21:45,250 --> 00:21:43,400
would say it's not about you know you

445
00:21:48,130 --> 00:21:45,260
can tell me anything you want sir with

446
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:48,140
facts I don't care I believe it I know

447
00:21:53,860 --> 00:21:51,200
what I saw right and you can't say as I

448
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:53,870
found out no you don't know what you saw

449
00:21:59,169 --> 00:21:56,000
because you don't know enough about you

450
00:22:01,060 --> 00:21:59,179
know astronomy and physics and and and

451
00:22:03,810 --> 00:22:01,070
in the case of like like with Mothman

452
00:22:06,970 --> 00:22:03,820
right I'm so called crypto terrestrial

453
00:22:09,790 --> 00:22:06,980
you know you you don't know about how

454
00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:09,800
stress affects you and but see you can't

455
00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:12,140
stand there and tell that people with a

456
00:22:17,890 --> 00:22:14,660
straight face because they're gonna you

457
00:22:19,690 --> 00:22:17,900
know it could get violent it's just like

458
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:19,700
you know trying to if you should go up

459
00:22:23,890 --> 00:22:22,100
to you know okay at the file Catholic

460
00:22:25,690 --> 00:22:23,900
and say do you know that what you

461
00:22:27,490 --> 00:22:25,700
believe in is irrational you know

462
00:22:30,460 --> 00:22:27,500
they're not going to they might not want

463
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:30,470
to leave you standing mm-hmm yeah

464
00:22:37,750 --> 00:22:32,650
there's been Wars over things like that

465
00:22:40,270 --> 00:22:37,760
absolutely yeah you know I mean I

466
00:22:43,230 --> 00:22:40,280
think I personally my personal thoughts

467
00:22:46,030 --> 00:22:43,240
are is that some of what people saying I

468
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:46,040
know it's just now I feel like I'm

469
00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:48,410
sounding like Stanton Friedman because

470
00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:52,670
he he said you know some of what people

471
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:54,260
are actually seeing out there he does

472
00:22:58,420 --> 00:22:56,080
believe or he did believe was

473
00:23:01,330 --> 00:22:58,430
extraterrestrial and I'm thinking that

474
00:23:03,670 --> 00:23:01,340
it all I'm thinking that it is possible

475
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:03,680
that some of what people are seeing is

476
00:23:09,370 --> 00:23:06,370
extraterrestrial I wouldn't rule it out

477
00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:09,380
further in it and that's as far as far

478
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:12,470
as I can go right I cannot you know the

479
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:16,370
old saying is you know you'll be

480
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:18,320
intellectually dishonest if you say no

481
00:23:22,210 --> 00:23:20,690
no chance know if it's extraterrestrial

482
00:23:24,450 --> 00:23:22,220
like I would never go that far because

483
00:23:29,980 --> 00:23:24,460
it could be I just don't know that it is

484
00:23:31,450 --> 00:23:29,990
yeah yeah but as far as well we're going

485
00:23:35,020 --> 00:23:31,460
to be going into break in just a couple

486
00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:35,030
of just a couple of minutes here as far

487
00:23:39,340 --> 00:23:37,420
as your book that is coming out used

488
00:23:43,930 --> 00:23:39,350
when you say you're kind of picking

489
00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:43,940
apart the beliefs does this also cover

490
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:47,600
the UFO phenomena as well in this book

491
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:51,410
there will be a chapter maybe two but

492
00:23:56,170 --> 00:23:53,600
that does get into there and it's more

493
00:23:57,580 --> 00:23:56,180
it's more covered in in in philosophy

494
00:24:00,430 --> 00:23:57,590
there's this thing called speculative

495
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,440
realism and what it is it's looking at

496
00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:02,720
like let's just for a really quick

497
00:24:06,970 --> 00:24:05,390
example here like what someone points at

498
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:06,980
a table and they say whatever that is

499
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:09,650
whatever that object is it's not a table

500
00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:13,730
we call it that but in reality it's just

501
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:15,980
you know it's an object with legs and

502
00:24:22,060 --> 00:24:18,410
the scary thing about speculative

503
00:24:24,610 --> 00:24:22,070
realism and object-oriented ontology is

504
00:24:28,060 --> 00:24:24,620
that it makes it really looks at

505
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:28,070
humanity as as objects okay not not like

506
00:24:33,910 --> 00:24:32,210
objectifying but as if it's like

507
00:24:36,850 --> 00:24:33,920
stripping the world down to its basics

508
00:24:38,770 --> 00:24:36,860
and what's left over is really an

509
00:24:40,570 --> 00:24:38,780
unpleasant to think about like like for

510
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:40,580
instance nothing in the world needs us

511
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:43,490
if we disappeared tomorrow no animal is

512
00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:46,970
us things things of that nature and the

513
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:48,950
point is so you can start all over again

514
00:24:51,870 --> 00:24:51,410
and build it back up and and look at it

515
00:24:54,330 --> 00:24:51,880
with a

516
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:54,340
that clear right you know I think the

517
00:24:59,820 --> 00:24:55,510
world would be actually better off

518
00:25:02,760 --> 00:24:59,830
without us I hate to say it but it might

519
00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:02,770
agree with you Martin yeah okay yeah all

520
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:04,630
right well it's time to go into our

521
00:25:09,419 --> 00:25:07,570
first break so hang in everyone we'll be

522
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:09,429
right back this is Martin Willis with

523
00:25:18,419 --> 00:25:11,289
William grubaugh ski and we'll be right

524
00:25:20,820 --> 00:25:18,429
back all right so welcome back to the

525
00:25:24,890 --> 00:25:20,830
show my guest tonight is William or as

526
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:24,900
he likes to be called bill Grabowski so

527
00:25:34,830 --> 00:25:26,370
let's see

528
00:25:40,110 --> 00:25:34,840
as far as as far as if it were et and it

529
00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:40,120
was actually confirmed that these are

530
00:25:45,930 --> 00:25:43,000
extraterrestrial that are visiting us if

531
00:25:47,970 --> 00:25:45,940
it ever was at any given time do you

532
00:25:52,340 --> 00:25:47,980
think we're in a different place than we

533
00:25:55,159 --> 00:25:52,350
were say 25 years ago as far as how

534
00:26:02,340 --> 00:25:55,169
society would handle something like that

535
00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:02,350
and if so or if not why so why not yeah

536
00:26:09,390 --> 00:26:04,030
I would say we're in a very different

537
00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:09,400
place and but again going out on a limb

538
00:26:17,250 --> 00:26:11,230
here and glad that I'm not standing in

539
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:17,260
the midst of a huge crowd when

540
00:26:21,630 --> 00:26:19,510
television came around people were very

541
00:26:23,399 --> 00:26:21,640
concerned very concerned that it was

542
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,409
gonna like you know rot rot the

543
00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:25,360
imaginations of mostly of kids it's

544
00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:27,370
always are the kids right protect the

545
00:26:31,140 --> 00:26:29,470
children and you know I'm all for that

546
00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:31,150
why shouldn't there the future they have

547
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:33,070
to be protected but television was

548
00:26:37,230 --> 00:26:35,440
initially it was figured right than it

549
00:26:39,630 --> 00:26:37,240
would really corrupt people but the

550
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:39,640
thing the big difference now is watching

551
00:26:44,399 --> 00:26:41,770
television is a passive experience it's

552
00:26:46,460 --> 00:26:44,409
not interactive days it is right you can

553
00:26:48,659 --> 00:26:46,470
change the channel you can binge watch

554
00:26:50,399 --> 00:26:48,669
you know whatever you want you can watch

555
00:26:54,210 --> 00:26:50,409
all it Breaking Bad in a week or

556
00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:54,220
whatever but the point is the the

557
00:27:01,649 --> 00:26:56,350
culture hasn't has changed completely

558
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:01,659
and now with some you know the power of

559
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:05,770
belief you know the

560
00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:08,080
chances for manipulation or deeper but

561
00:27:13,170 --> 00:27:10,510
like the like the general population is

562
00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:13,180
now so used to you know kind of a

563
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:15,760
fragmented attention span and you know

564
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:17,110
that's all that's another big thing all

565
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:18,880
the internet is killing attentions well

566
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:21,490
it is and if you spend too much time I

567
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:24,490
there's there you build up in impatience

568
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:27,970
with things and this is also as I've

569
00:27:32,970 --> 00:27:30,370
found out is hurting the publishing

570
00:27:34,860 --> 00:27:32,980
industry where you know and and it's

571
00:27:36,930 --> 00:27:34,870
again it's dangerous to say things like

572
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:36,940
well the average person blah blah

573
00:27:40,980 --> 00:27:38,650
because when you try and find the

574
00:27:42,810 --> 00:27:40,990
average person that person doesn't exist

575
00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:42,820
because you're you know you're trying

576
00:27:46,650 --> 00:27:44,950
you're trying to put you know a group of

577
00:27:47,300 --> 00:27:46,660
people into one hole and he can't do

578
00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:47,310
that

579
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:52,780
but attentions are you know I'm things I

580
00:27:58,740 --> 00:27:53,440
pay attention

581
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:58,750
make and even like they may be reading

582
00:28:03,570 --> 00:28:00,880
an article that's fascinating and they

583
00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:03,580
might say wow that was long and I'll

584
00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:05,670
look at ago it was like four pages

585
00:28:10,650 --> 00:28:07,510
that's too long

586
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:10,660
hmm and it's kind of a fear I have like

587
00:28:14,670 --> 00:28:12,910
you know I'm a guy who writes books well

588
00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:14,680
is there really a future in that because

589
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:18,220
personally I don't like ebooks I don't I

590
00:28:25,020 --> 00:28:21,310
don't enjoy that experience some of the

591
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:25,030
books I get to review for Library

592
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:27,610
Journal sometimes their ebooks mostly

593
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:28,720
they're not though they're they're

594
00:28:34,490 --> 00:28:31,050
really good about sending hardcover but

595
00:28:37,890 --> 00:28:34,500
the experience of always always always

596
00:28:41,250 --> 00:28:37,900
being in this sort of eternal present

597
00:28:43,980 --> 00:28:41,260
moment is stressful and I find that

598
00:28:46,260 --> 00:28:43,990
that's more true about people my age

599
00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:46,270
like I was born in 58

600
00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:48,790
so I'm older than a lot of people but at

601
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:51,940
but anyhow it seems that gets harder on

602
00:28:56,670 --> 00:28:54,610
those of us who were around before the

603
00:28:59,190 --> 00:28:56,680
internet and then had to adapt to it

604
00:29:01,650 --> 00:28:59,200
then it is on on people who kind of are

605
00:29:03,930 --> 00:29:01,660
blown into it they don't really see like

606
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:03,940
well why are you so upset about this and

607
00:29:08,250 --> 00:29:06,850
and it's almost like well you know if

608
00:29:10,350 --> 00:29:08,260
you don't know how to drive a car and

609
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:10,360
he's never wrecked one you will not be

610
00:29:19,470 --> 00:29:17,040
yeah you know no I'm right there with

611
00:29:26,879 --> 00:29:19,480
you and the age and everything

612
00:29:28,110 --> 00:29:26,889
and no I I totally get it and I also you

613
00:29:30,539 --> 00:29:28,120
know you're talking about all the

614
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:30,549
information coming at us that's what

615
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:32,970
it's it's about and why the extent the

616
00:29:38,940 --> 00:29:36,159
attention spans are so short I do

617
00:29:41,940 --> 00:29:38,950
believe it's like everything is being

618
00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:41,950
pelted at us in all different ways and

619
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:44,350
no you killed it correct yeah

620
00:29:49,529 --> 00:29:47,679
and then if you I never really talked

621
00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:49,539
about too many personal things in my

622
00:29:56,159 --> 00:29:53,950
life but my my career has been extremely

623
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:56,169
busy that's why I missed out on doing a

624
00:30:03,649 --> 00:29:58,960
show last week has just has really taken

625
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:03,659
off and then we're very busy but also I

626
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:07,600
I took a segment of out of my life that

627
00:30:11,370 --> 00:30:09,340
had to do with the Internet and had to

628
00:30:13,769 --> 00:30:11,380
do with you know paying attention that

629
00:30:15,539 --> 00:30:13,779
as I decided oh I don't know maybe a

630
00:30:18,659 --> 00:30:15,549
month ago this is something very

631
00:30:21,539 --> 00:30:18,669
personal to me and I'll probably get

632
00:30:24,690 --> 00:30:21,549
email about it I said I decided about a

633
00:30:28,889 --> 00:30:24,700
month ago to completely disconnect from

634
00:30:30,769 --> 00:30:28,899
politics completely because I was it was

635
00:30:34,649 --> 00:30:30,779
actually getting me down and and the

636
00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:34,659
divisive nacinda and the attacking and

637
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:37,480
the the negativity so I completely got

638
00:30:42,570 --> 00:30:40,210
rid of all my news apps I completely got

639
00:30:46,110 --> 00:30:42,580
rid of anything they had to do with news

640
00:30:49,259 --> 00:30:46,120
I'm off of Facebook everything and I got

641
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:49,269
to tell you I feel I have more time for

642
00:30:56,779 --> 00:30:53,370
myself I feel a hundred percent better

643
00:31:00,180 --> 00:30:56,789
and it's just something I had to do but

644
00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:00,190
just kind of segue into the amount of

645
00:31:05,039 --> 00:31:02,230
information that's out there that's

646
00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:05,049
coming at people all the time and I

647
00:31:10,740 --> 00:31:08,529
think this is and also in the respect to

648
00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:10,750
people that are looking into this topic

649
00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:14,110
there's can be they can find all kinds

650
00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:18,360
of information podcasts videos and and

651
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:21,750
can get letter straight fairly quickly

652
00:31:31,049 --> 00:31:28,690
so there you go yeah I completely get

653
00:31:33,420 --> 00:31:31,059
every word you said and and the thing is

654
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:33,430
especially when filtered

655
00:31:40,530 --> 00:31:36,850
through you know all the UFO stuff what

656
00:31:42,930 --> 00:31:40,540
I'm seeing is and and again not to harp

657
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:42,940
on on younger people of that not only

658
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:45,010
are they not aware of like the older

659
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:49,810
cases there's there's almost a sort of

660
00:31:54,660 --> 00:31:52,960
you know a grudging acceptance well what

661
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:54,670
I don't have to know that stuff it's all

662
00:31:59,820 --> 00:31:57,760
on the Internet and to someone like me

663
00:32:01,320 --> 00:31:59,830
values books and learning you know and

664
00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:01,330
all that I'm like what how can you say

665
00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:03,640
that it's not don't rely on the internet

666
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:05,950
for information rely on what you learn

667
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:09,010
you know and teach yourself and and man

668
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:10,810
they'll get you slap down fast in some

669
00:32:16,650 --> 00:32:13,600
quarters the idea of well why do I need

670
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:16,660
to know you know geography general

671
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:18,370
geography or whatever general history

672
00:32:23,370 --> 00:32:20,080
where I can just look it up or history

673
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:23,380
well yeah right history with it when you

674
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:25,330
go to uh depends on where you get your

675
00:32:29,940 --> 00:32:28,090
information I'm not so sure a lot of

676
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:29,950
people using the internet are aware that

677
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:32,710
there are so-called authority sites and

678
00:32:36,930 --> 00:32:34,240
there's a dangerous word to use right

679
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:36,940
there to look at like Wikipedia is not

680
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:39,550
the ultimate authority on anything in my

681
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:43,120
opinion that's wrong yeah you know I

682
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:44,770
mean now if I want to know something and

683
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:47,530
be certain about it let's say there's

684
00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:48,850
there's a small country I don't know a

685
00:32:53,610 --> 00:32:50,950
lot about am I going to go to Wikipedia

686
00:32:55,770 --> 00:32:53,620
no I'm gonna go to like National

687
00:32:58,290 --> 00:32:55,780
Geographic I'm gonna go to some you know

688
00:32:59,910 --> 00:32:58,300
god save me some government database and

689
00:33:02,520 --> 00:32:59,920
look at that because these people are

690
00:33:04,260 --> 00:33:02,530
paid to provide you know correct

691
00:33:06,750 --> 00:33:04,270
information they're they're liable for

692
00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:06,760
it that's why I would trust it if

693
00:33:12,780 --> 00:33:08,620
someone has something to lose by putting

694
00:33:16,140 --> 00:33:12,790
up you know bad information that person

695
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:16,150
can probably be trusted now they have

696
00:33:21,420 --> 00:33:18,610
nothing to lose wikipedia has nothing to

697
00:33:23,070 --> 00:33:21,430
lose they put crap out there someone can

698
00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:23,080
come in anyone can come in and just edit

699
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:26,980
it and it no that's the thing when I

700
00:33:31,620 --> 00:33:28,330
first heard about that I'm like man

701
00:33:33,510 --> 00:33:31,630
that's a bad idea you know now I

702
00:33:35,820 --> 00:33:33,520
understand democracy and all that right

703
00:33:37,980 --> 00:33:35,830
but when it comes do you know okay two

704
00:33:40,110 --> 00:33:37,990
and two equals four right yes it does

705
00:33:41,730 --> 00:33:40,120
and guess what that never changes no

706
00:33:43,890 --> 00:33:41,740
matter what you say about it you can

707
00:33:44,430 --> 00:33:43,900
hate two plus two equals four but that's

708
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:44,440
what it is

709
00:33:48,870 --> 00:33:47,050
and we're Kapadia seems to say no no

710
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:48,880
oh it's what I say it is because I'm

711
00:33:57,780 --> 00:33:51,970
allowed to and you know that's a can of

712
00:34:00,510 --> 00:33:57,790
worms there yes so it's like you know as

713
00:34:02,550 --> 00:34:00,520
here we are in the Information Age but

714
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:02,560
it's it's a double-edged sword you know

715
00:34:07,410 --> 00:34:04,690
I think that's kind of what what the

716
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:07,420
tone of this conversation is it's a

717
00:34:13,380 --> 00:34:11,169
double-edged sword because if there's as

718
00:34:15,870 --> 00:34:13,390
much misinformation is there is

719
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:15,880
information and to try to sort it all

720
00:34:20,940 --> 00:34:18,399
out especially when it comes to

721
00:34:25,530 --> 00:34:20,950
something like UFOs or anything you know

722
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:25,540
a paranormal so what are you are you you

723
00:34:31,010 --> 00:34:28,450
mentioned earlier that there it's almost

724
00:34:35,310 --> 00:34:31,020
like a religion and what do you think

725
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:35,320
pop culture you know plays into say

726
00:34:43,740 --> 00:34:40,810
something like UFOs huge yeah I recall

727
00:34:46,860 --> 00:34:43,750
discussing this with Michael well when

728
00:34:48,690 --> 00:34:46,870
the last time I was on podcast UFO we

729
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:48,700
probably got a little too deeply into

730
00:34:53,370 --> 00:34:50,649
that but but I think for a good reason

731
00:34:55,710 --> 00:34:53,380
my pop culture and everyone's affected

732
00:34:57,570 --> 00:34:55,720
by it it's like the air you know you're

733
00:34:59,820 --> 00:34:57,580
a fish in water you don't even notice it

734
00:35:02,880 --> 00:34:59,830
hardly and it does I think it does

735
00:35:06,390 --> 00:35:02,890
affect people's viewpoints on on UFO

736
00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:06,400
reality or non reality and you know some

737
00:35:12,450 --> 00:35:09,070
of the movies television shows they're

738
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:12,460
so like visually sophisticated that

739
00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:14,800
you're you're affected emotionally and

740
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:16,990
you want to believe things or there's

741
00:35:19,950 --> 00:35:18,370
that whole old there's that old saying

742
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:19,960
you know from the x-files

743
00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:22,090
I want to believe I always hated that

744
00:35:27,390 --> 00:35:24,670
poster in Mulder's office because I

745
00:35:29,730 --> 00:35:27,400
always think no I'd like I don't want to

746
00:35:32,730 --> 00:35:29,740
believe I want to understand it's a

747
00:35:34,530 --> 00:35:32,740
difference and pop culture really really

748
00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:34,540
works that you know like they they do

749
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:37,270
work on people's people's beliefs and

750
00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:38,770
emotions because that's how they stay in

751
00:35:43,890 --> 00:35:41,440
business so you know at the bottom of

752
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:43,900
that there's this whole you know bottom

753
00:35:48,990 --> 00:35:46,210
line mentality and it's also been called

754
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:49,000
predatory capitalism not that I'm like

755
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:52,690
I'm like anti-capitalist I'm anti bad

756
00:35:57,210 --> 00:35:55,570
capitalism towards work you know all

757
00:36:01,049 --> 00:35:57,220
cares about manipulating people's

758
00:36:05,370 --> 00:36:01,059
feelings so go buy more stuff you

759
00:36:08,849 --> 00:36:05,380
yeah capitalism is not perfect that's

760
00:36:11,609 --> 00:36:08,859
for sure and it just seems that if we

761
00:36:13,559 --> 00:36:11,619
can always expect a downturn and we can

762
00:36:17,250 --> 00:36:13,569
always expect a recession and depression

763
00:36:18,660 --> 00:36:17,260
when when we have a capitalism and up I

764
00:36:24,539 --> 00:36:18,670
don't know what the answer is it could

765
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:24,549
be tuned up possibly but yeah it's like

766
00:36:29,130 --> 00:36:27,730
well it's a big game but but you know at

767
00:36:30,569 --> 00:36:29,140
least in America it's kind of like well

768
00:36:33,410 --> 00:36:30,579
it's the only game in town and you have

769
00:36:35,970 --> 00:36:33,420
to you have to pay attention to it and

770
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:35,980
so you know try and avoid falling into

771
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:39,910
traps like there verify things that you

772
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:41,680
see online or on television you know

773
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:45,010
because it's so easy to fake today and

774
00:36:54,750 --> 00:36:49,049
and what exactly I've never really heard

775
00:36:59,339 --> 00:36:54,760
predatory capitalism in in how does that

776
00:37:03,089 --> 00:36:59,349
how does that work with what our topic

777
00:37:05,130 --> 00:37:03,099
is about well I've one word Springs

778
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:05,140
right to mine like clickbait will be

779
00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:08,410
starting lasting about uh-huh and you

780
00:37:14,220 --> 00:37:10,140
know as far as like the like UFO

781
00:37:16,319 --> 00:37:14,230
phenomenon goes and especially places

782
00:37:19,309 --> 00:37:16,329
like YouTube with these with these

783
00:37:21,630 --> 00:37:19,319
videos and mm-hm

784
00:37:23,339 --> 00:37:21,640
see that's the whole thing like that

785
00:37:25,859 --> 00:37:23,349
that exists exactly that's the bait

786
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:25,869
that's what draws people in and then you

787
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:28,930
know it yet you can't really fairly

788
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,170
blame the individual for going holy crap

789
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:34,240
have you seen this video because I

790
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:36,400
myself have been in that seat I still am

791
00:37:41,220 --> 00:37:38,170
some days we're all see a video and go

792
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:41,230
does that's astounding what is that and

793
00:37:45,930 --> 00:37:43,839
then someone else does the work for me

794
00:37:47,970 --> 00:37:45,940
and they say well no no no here's how

795
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:47,980
this really worked but had I not known

796
00:37:53,339 --> 00:37:50,770
that and I was in you know whatever

797
00:37:54,450 --> 00:37:53,349
anxiety moved that day or something I

798
00:37:56,609 --> 00:37:54,460
may have went

799
00:37:59,640 --> 00:37:56,619
that's absolutely real and you cannot

800
00:38:03,809 --> 00:37:59,650
tell me it's not mm-hmm do you remember

801
00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:03,819
do you remember the alien autopsy film

802
00:38:07,859 --> 00:38:05,230
when that came out and then oh yeah I I

803
00:38:11,660 --> 00:38:07,869
was one of the poor sods who went out

804
00:38:14,070 --> 00:38:11,670
and bought the VHS I had to see more

805
00:38:16,140 --> 00:38:14,080
well I I do I do

806
00:38:18,780 --> 00:38:16,150
remember I wasn't paying any attention

807
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:18,790
to the UFO field at that time and I had

808
00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:23,170
a busy an auction company basically so I

809
00:38:27,270 --> 00:38:25,060
was extremely busy and I remembered like

810
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:27,280
walking past the TV and then seeing an

811
00:38:33,930 --> 00:38:30,250
alien being operated on and going whoa

812
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:33,940
and you know it's kind of funny you know

813
00:38:42,810 --> 00:38:38,320
back then my reaction was WOW hey well I

814
00:38:45,090 --> 00:38:42,820
I guess it's real and then I moved on

815
00:38:47,340 --> 00:38:45,100
I didn't even you know and I'm wondering

816
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:47,350
how if there were other people that or

817
00:38:51,780 --> 00:38:48,880
if this is what it will actually happen

818
00:38:55,490 --> 00:38:51,790
once you know we really actually do find

819
00:38:58,920 --> 00:38:55,500
there's a intelligent life out there

820
00:39:00,900 --> 00:38:58,930
well right away and I can only I'm glad

821
00:39:03,090 --> 00:39:00,910
I heard your example that you were able

822
00:39:04,110 --> 00:39:03,100
to see that right and then go well I

823
00:39:05,970 --> 00:39:04,120
don't know

824
00:39:08,670 --> 00:39:05,980
and you weren't you were not you know

825
00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:08,680
instantly crazy about obsessed with it

826
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:10,960
and what when I saw that I was like okay

827
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:11,920
okay

828
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:15,370
what I thought was that is either that's

829
00:39:20,460 --> 00:39:17,890
that's got that's got to be real or it

830
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:20,470
is the best hoax I have ever seen and

831
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:22,450
this was in my case this I think I've

832
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:25,510
been on the Internet maybe two years in

833
00:39:30,210 --> 00:39:28,330
that Canada came out of like 97 or

834
00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:30,220
something like that 90 was about right

835
00:39:37,710 --> 00:39:34,900
mm-hmm and then I saw it in it was

836
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:37,720
covered on one of the UFO magazines and

837
00:39:41,790 --> 00:39:39,490
then it started to get like mainstream

838
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:41,800
news coverage like this can't this

839
00:39:46,740 --> 00:39:44,050
cannot be real because if it were

840
00:39:48,540 --> 00:39:46,750
there's no way that that sort of a thing

841
00:39:50,700 --> 00:39:48,550
could be kept under wraps the way people

842
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:50,710
talk even even you know people who are

843
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:53,050
you know supposedly like working in the

844
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:54,730
intelligence community there's there are

845
00:39:58,680 --> 00:39:56,650
leaks all the time and something that

846
00:40:00,420 --> 00:39:58,690
big I'm thinking no way that cannot be

847
00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:00,430
hidden and then of course it turned out

848
00:40:05,250 --> 00:40:02,680
to be a hoax now we know how it was done

849
00:40:07,830 --> 00:40:05,260
and all that and they try to you know

850
00:40:10,590 --> 00:40:07,840
tie it in with Roswell yeah that's right

851
00:40:12,300 --> 00:40:10,600
I remember that the Italian with Roswell

852
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:12,310
and it's funny the funny thing about the

853
00:40:17,940 --> 00:40:15,280
leg that's kind of like burnt off one of

854
00:40:20,370 --> 00:40:17,950
the legs and that was because it wasn't

855
00:40:22,590 --> 00:40:20,380
they accidentally did that and then made

856
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:22,600
it look like you know it was it was

857
00:40:27,780 --> 00:40:25,510
burnt or something right they

858
00:40:30,690 --> 00:40:27,790
incorporated it yeah yeah

859
00:40:36,300 --> 00:40:30,700
and just recently there's there was some

860
00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:36,310
talk about that that I think the owner

861
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:38,680
of the film was trying to say somehow

862
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:40,510
again that it was really real or

863
00:40:44,370 --> 00:40:42,400
something along those lines and of

864
00:40:45,660 --> 00:40:44,380
course Philip me animals one of the

865
00:40:48,510 --> 00:40:45,670
people he was actually going to be on

866
00:40:52,380 --> 00:40:48,520
the show last weekend and became ill

867
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,390
couldn't make the show but he is really

868
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:54,400
the one that uncovered the fact that it

869
00:41:00,930 --> 00:40:56,530
was fake he did all the work on that in

870
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:00,940
England and this was Philip mantle like

871
00:41:05,820 --> 00:41:03,130
a fireplace mantel okay yeah okay sorry

872
00:41:07,710 --> 00:41:05,830
about that yeah yeah so but no no

873
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:07,720
interesting that he he was able to

874
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:09,910
figure all that out Santilli I think the

875
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:11,530
person's name is that was involved

876
00:41:19,530 --> 00:41:15,490
ability Yeah right yeah but I mean

877
00:41:21,570 --> 00:41:19,540
there's a good case right there of you

878
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:21,580
know something getting out there and the

879
00:41:26,670 --> 00:41:24,970
reaction to it you know how are people

880
00:41:28,350 --> 00:41:26,680
going to react to something like that I

881
00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:28,360
mean that was worldwide that went

882
00:41:34,650 --> 00:41:32,110
everywhere yeah that was viral before

883
00:41:39,180 --> 00:41:34,660
there was viral as a term exactly yeah

884
00:41:43,310 --> 00:41:39,190
yeah and so you mentioned earlier that

885
00:41:46,410 --> 00:41:43,320
you don't think that people getting into

886
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:46,420
say the UFO topic at all they're not

887
00:41:51,090 --> 00:41:48,430
interested in the old cases because I do

888
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:51,100
get some every once in a while I'll get

889
00:41:53,970 --> 00:41:52,690
an email from a listener that say hey

890
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:53,980
why do you always talk about the old

891
00:41:59,550 --> 00:41:57,010
case we're sick of the old cases but you

892
00:42:01,410 --> 00:41:59,560
know I mean I guess the the best new

893
00:42:04,740 --> 00:42:01,420
case or the one that people are talking

894
00:42:07,860 --> 00:42:04,750
about the most these days is not really

895
00:42:09,780 --> 00:42:07,870
new but it's not really that old 2004

896
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,790
Nimitz case that's pretty strong and

897
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:11,440
pretty interesting

898
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:14,290
have you yourself looked into any of

899
00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:18,010
that yes they have I guess the first

900
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:19,750
thing that got my attention it's a

901
00:42:23,970 --> 00:42:21,910
personal thing my my cousin used to be

902
00:42:26,850 --> 00:42:23,980
on the Nimitz so I saw I just saw like

903
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:26,860
what USS Nimitz like okay I got to hear

904
00:42:31,050 --> 00:42:28,210
about this and then when I heard what it

905
00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:31,060
was about I was like okay now you have

906
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:37,650
and it's it's unusual that it's

907
00:42:41,490 --> 00:42:39,850
persisted this long but that does that

908
00:42:44,970 --> 00:42:41,500
disproves how

909
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:44,980
you know if someone gets emotionally

910
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:46,930
into something it's very hard to shut it

911
00:42:51,950 --> 00:42:49,570
off and even if you're a pretty

912
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:51,960
well-educated person it's hard to

913
00:42:57,060 --> 00:42:54,160
overrule emotions with your intellect

914
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:57,070
and and that whole thing there lake up

915
00:43:02,370 --> 00:43:00,640
my take on it is after after reading all

916
00:43:05,099 --> 00:43:02,380
this stuff and I said I'm still keeping

917
00:43:09,620 --> 00:43:05,109
up with it right is that it looks to me

918
00:43:12,089 --> 00:43:09,630
like it's probably a target drone hmm I

919
00:43:16,410 --> 00:43:12,099
don't know there's there would have to

920
00:43:22,830 --> 00:43:16,420
be a lot of questions answered when it

921
00:43:25,070 --> 00:43:22,840
came to the capabilities and the I just

922
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:25,080
don't know I mean they're talking about

923
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:29,650
130 G's you know right for some of the

924
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,090
right-hand turns and things like that

925
00:43:36,660 --> 00:43:33,599
you know there's been a lot of

926
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:36,670
speculation lately on the internet that

927
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:39,040
I've seen you know pop up about it being

928
00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:42,330
some type of you know advanced military

929
00:43:47,430 --> 00:43:45,070
you know training exercise to see what

930
00:43:51,839 --> 00:43:47,440
the Navy would you know how the Navy

931
00:43:53,849 --> 00:43:51,849
would react and yeah yeah I don't know

932
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:53,859
you know when you hear of actually what

933
00:44:01,160 --> 00:43:57,130
the thing did and and what happened it

934
00:44:04,230 --> 00:44:01,170
to me it seems pretty incredible I

935
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:04,240
really don't know what to think but I do

936
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:06,250
believe that it's it's pretty unusual

937
00:44:13,050 --> 00:44:09,910
and then there was also the case of

938
00:44:17,210 --> 00:44:13,060
course off Florida you know - ten years

939
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:17,220
later that was pretty incredible as well

940
00:44:23,130 --> 00:44:21,130
and I might not be familiar with that

941
00:44:26,220 --> 00:44:23,140
well what if you don't mind briefly what

942
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:26,230
happened there well that's where the one

943
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:29,890
of the videos that came out that to the

944
00:44:38,460 --> 00:44:35,609
Stars Academy is you know had that film

945
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:38,470
Lou Elizondo had something to do with

946
00:44:44,370 --> 00:44:40,890
that film as well it's called the gimbal

947
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:44,380
are you familiar with that it turns okay

948
00:44:48,329 --> 00:44:46,330
I'm familiar with with with the name

949
00:44:49,370 --> 00:44:48,339
gimbal but I care him I don't know if

950
00:44:51,380 --> 00:44:49,380
I've seen that

951
00:44:53,779 --> 00:44:51,390
or is this the one with the multiple

952
00:44:55,819 --> 00:44:53,789
lights over the ocean it's the one where

953
00:44:58,549 --> 00:44:55,829
is actually turning it keeps showing

954
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:58,559
that it's silting and then there's the

955
00:45:03,799 --> 00:45:01,440
the pilots are you know commenting on it

956
00:45:04,759 --> 00:45:03,809
you know hey dude or and you know all

957
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:04,769
that type of stuff

958
00:45:08,749 --> 00:45:06,720
oh not you know when you put it that way

959
00:45:10,609 --> 00:45:08,759
with the dialog I think I asked you in

960
00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:10,619
that video that's the one that actually

961
00:45:18,650 --> 00:45:16,920
came out on in December 16th 2017 and

962
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:18,660
the New York Times it was released the

963
00:45:23,630 --> 00:45:21,359
same time that that article came out

964
00:45:25,460 --> 00:45:23,640
that's what made the big you know all

965
00:45:28,009 --> 00:45:25,470
the headlines and and all the news

966
00:45:31,309 --> 00:45:28,019
stories it was that was the gimbal the

967
00:45:34,789 --> 00:45:31,319
tic-tac video was secondary and one that

968
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:34,799
you see you rarely see compared to the

969
00:45:43,519 --> 00:45:39,599
gimbals number one video okay right

970
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:43,529
right yeah I can see in my my addled

971
00:45:49,219 --> 00:45:45,599
memory I'm seeing those tumor to take

972
00:45:54,849 --> 00:45:49,229
tag in the gimbal and I recall reading

973
00:45:58,430 --> 00:45:54,859
about where you can see the the pilot -

974
00:46:01,969 --> 00:45:58,440
that's it yeah you see the screen uh-huh

975
00:46:07,099 --> 00:46:01,979
and the you know the knots per wind and

976
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:07,109
you know all that stuff yeah someone was

977
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:08,729
commenting on okay if you look closely

978
00:46:15,019 --> 00:46:12,210
at you know the the screen the pilot

979
00:46:17,089 --> 00:46:15,029
screen on this on this video and then

980
00:46:18,529 --> 00:46:17,099
look at this other one this that that's

981
00:46:21,769 --> 00:46:18,539
coming to mind for some reason like

982
00:46:23,209 --> 00:46:21,779
there was either a discrepancy or there

983
00:46:26,509 --> 00:46:23,219
was something was brought up about the

984
00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:26,519
pot what the pilot could see a 1 on the

985
00:46:34,549 --> 00:46:28,440
screen and I don't know exactly what

986
00:46:36,589 --> 00:46:34,559
they think they call it you know yeah so

987
00:46:39,489 --> 00:46:36,599
you you've kind of following that you

988
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:39,499
have follow and followed that whole

989
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:46,170
situation on both sides to me we chatted

990
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:47,940
just briefly just ahead of the show and

991
00:46:52,969 --> 00:46:50,400
you mentioned that you have seen

992
00:46:55,759 --> 00:46:52,979
different things posted by people like

993
00:46:59,569 --> 00:46:55,769
John Greenwald and all that it's yeah it

994
00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:59,579
is it is quite a mystery when all the

995
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:02,160
pieces come together trying to figure

996
00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:02,830
out which

997
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:06,670
way is which what are your thoughts in

998
00:47:14,580 --> 00:47:10,510
general when it comes to you know Tom

999
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:14,590
what Tom DeLonge has done I'm the people

1000
00:47:19,110 --> 00:47:17,650
with him the so I guess I'm glad that I

1001
00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:19,120
have been following this but the thing

1002
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:21,550
is what approves about me is that no

1003
00:47:27,810 --> 00:47:24,970
matter what someone is saying about you

1004
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:27,820
know is this a UFO is this not a UFO I'm

1005
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:30,640
basically relying on three people

1006
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:33,310
John Greenwald Robert Schaeffer and Jack

1007
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:35,920
brewer Jack Jack brewer is he i I

1008
00:47:40,470 --> 00:47:37,810
haven't talked to him in a while but I

1009
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:40,480
consider him a friend and really I trust

1010
00:47:45,870 --> 00:47:43,330
his he's about I guess he's about as a

1011
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:45,880
person can be and be interested in this

1012
00:47:51,090 --> 00:47:48,730
stuff and you know comment intelligently

1013
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:51,100
about it and as far as this this recent

1014
00:47:56,010 --> 00:47:53,530
thing goes which is you know really not

1015
00:47:58,980 --> 00:47:56,020
that recent anymore and I said earlier

1016
00:48:01,890 --> 00:47:58,990
that I thought it was a target drone I

1017
00:48:04,110 --> 00:48:01,900
should have said no no I think it's like

1018
00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:04,120
a high performance I've you know

1019
00:48:08,370 --> 00:48:06,640
classified aircraft is some sort of

1020
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:08,380
thing and they've that they were testing

1021
00:48:13,380 --> 00:48:11,770
reactions of pilots you know and of

1022
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:13,390
course the pilots can't know what it is

1023
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:14,800
because they won't get a genuine

1024
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:20,050
reaction and well you're years ago you

1025
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:23,440
know Jacques Vallee published this I

1026
00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:26,730
think it was in forbidden science the I

1027
00:48:35,010 --> 00:48:30,670
mentioned this in my book there was a

1028
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:35,020
memorandum where the military military

1029
00:48:43,070 --> 00:48:39,760
intelligence was suggesting that UFO

1030
00:48:48,090 --> 00:48:43,080
phenomena be faked to a test

1031
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:48,100
public reaction I'm actually looking at

1032
00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:49,810
my own book right here very quickly

1033
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:52,510
a pentacle memorandum and projects

1034
00:48:59,130 --> 00:48:55,810
torque and this memorandum which which

1035
00:49:02,880 --> 00:48:59,140
Jacques Vallee hid from Allen Hynek for

1036
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:02,890
a while but he eventually showed it to

1037
00:49:07,530 --> 00:49:04,810
him where then and this this is an

1038
00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:07,540
actual memorandum and I think was

1039
00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:11,710
written by Patel Patel Institute in

1040
00:49:16,770 --> 00:49:13,510
Columbus Ohio where I used to live

1041
00:49:18,810 --> 00:49:16,780
strangely where they were they were

1042
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:18,820
they were a think-tanks Patel still is a

1043
00:49:25,470 --> 00:49:21,520
think-tank and they were suggesting

1044
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:25,480
faking UFO sightings and calibrating the

1045
00:49:29,250 --> 00:49:27,850
public's reactions because they were

1046
00:49:31,500 --> 00:49:29,260
trying to you know it was some kind of

1047
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:31,510
you know yeah this is another classic

1048
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:34,090
conspiracy thing where you know involved

1049
00:49:37,620 --> 00:49:36,610
with contingency planning and you know

1050
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:37,630
what are we getting what is the

1051
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:39,010
government going to do if there is an

1052
00:49:44,490 --> 00:49:42,370
actual UFO whatever you want to call it

1053
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:44,500
breakout invasion how will people react

1054
00:49:48,270 --> 00:49:45,970
we have to know how they'll react and

1055
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:48,280
this this pentacle memorandum was

1056
00:49:53,610 --> 00:49:51,520
suggesting that and then later on in

1057
00:49:56,940 --> 00:49:53,620
time people people have said other

1058
00:49:59,820 --> 00:49:56,950
researchers like well the UFOs were

1059
00:50:02,250 --> 00:49:59,830
seeing today you know the triangles and

1060
00:50:06,510 --> 00:50:02,260
stuff maybe this is part of that part of

1061
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:06,520
that program who knows very interesting

1062
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:11,110
Wow well Jack Jack Brewer was on this

1063
00:50:19,110 --> 00:50:15,250
show back in 2016 and so John

1064
00:50:23,970 --> 00:50:19,120
greenwald's been on and and Schafer has

1065
00:50:29,330 --> 00:50:23,980
not been on but he has been invited you

1066
00:50:32,190 --> 00:50:29,340
know I I do like I do like listening to

1067
00:50:34,860 --> 00:50:32,200
you know people's point of view even it

1068
00:50:36,570 --> 00:50:34,870
doesn't matter if they're a skeptic it's

1069
00:50:39,810 --> 00:50:36,580
all interesting to me because I don't

1070
00:50:45,540 --> 00:50:39,820
think you know again that anyone really

1071
00:50:47,070 --> 00:50:45,550
has any answers definitive truth so to

1072
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:47,080
speak and if you know if they have it

1073
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:49,810
they're not talking yes or if they think

1074
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:52,090
they have it and say they have it then

1075
00:51:01,440 --> 00:50:56,050
run away right I have the absolute truth

1076
00:51:05,250 --> 00:51:01,450
man yeah yeah that's right hold on I'll

1077
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:09,750
so what do you think if if you were out

1078
00:51:16,110 --> 00:51:13,680
there like wanting to get younger people

1079
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:16,120
looking into this topic what do you

1080
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:18,970
think a good approach to that is do you

1081
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:20,890
think would you go back to the reading

1082
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:22,930
of books or do you just think that

1083
00:51:27,570 --> 00:51:25,210
that's lost in today's that's kind of

1084
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:27,580
what you're mentioning like I guess I'm

1085
00:51:30,750 --> 00:51:29,680
hoping it's not lost you know I don't

1086
00:51:32,610 --> 00:51:30,760
think it is because

1087
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:32,620
that's how I'm making my living as a

1088
00:51:38,070 --> 00:51:35,890
writer not and again not primarily

1089
00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:38,080
through right through writing about you

1090
00:51:42,750 --> 00:51:40,510
know UFO and paranormal phenomena but

1091
00:51:46,530 --> 00:51:42,760
it's still part of my income right so in

1092
00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:46,540
a way you know I I have to be I have to

1093
00:51:51,390 --> 00:51:48,160
count on my own let's just call it in

1094
00:51:55,050 --> 00:51:51,400
Tiger II and my my desire to be to be

1095
00:51:56,790 --> 00:51:55,060
truthful even if it hurts me so what

1096
00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:56,800
would I you know for a young person I I

1097
00:52:01,290 --> 00:51:58,450
guess I would probably if they were

1098
00:52:03,330 --> 00:52:01,300
making a serious inquiry right I I could

1099
00:52:05,850 --> 00:52:03,340
easily make a list of books and it

1100
00:52:07,410 --> 00:52:05,860
wouldn't be a long list it would not be

1101
00:52:11,610 --> 00:52:07,420
long it would probably be fewer than ten

1102
00:52:12,750 --> 00:52:11,620
books that I would recommend and it

1103
00:52:14,070 --> 00:52:12,760
would just have to say it would just

1104
00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:14,080
have to read them you know or these

1105
00:52:18,780 --> 00:52:15,910
parts of them because again this whole

1106
00:52:20,550 --> 00:52:18,790
attention span thing that that scares me

1107
00:52:23,250 --> 00:52:20,560
you know because if you're not paying

1108
00:52:25,860 --> 00:52:23,260
attention you can be manipulated and

1109
00:52:28,770 --> 00:52:25,870
then god you even remember what were the

1110
00:52:30,990 --> 00:52:28,780
actual steps involved in my manipulation

1111
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:31,000
then you know of myself I'm constantly

1112
00:52:36,030 --> 00:52:33,250
backtracking like if I see a comment

1113
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:36,040
about well you know about a UFO sighting

1114
00:52:41,460 --> 00:52:38,770
I'll read hurry them all it's a good

1115
00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:41,470
example is Jack Burroughs website that

1116
00:52:45,900 --> 00:52:43,480
UFO trail walk because he gets he gets

1117
00:52:48,510 --> 00:52:45,910
skeptics all the time in any he'll also

1118
00:52:50,820 --> 00:52:48,520
get someone saying oh you know Brewer

1119
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:50,830
you're just saying this because you know

1120
00:52:55,590 --> 00:52:52,510
you don't you don't ever want to believe

1121
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:55,600
in UFOs can be extraterrestrial and you

1122
00:53:00,570 --> 00:52:57,690
know to his credit jack will say well I

1123
00:53:01,740 --> 00:53:00,580
know I don't want to believe it I want

1124
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:01,750
to I want to find out what's actually

1125
00:53:07,170 --> 00:53:04,290
going on if it turns out that they are

1126
00:53:09,300 --> 00:53:07,180
extraterrestrial fine but let's hope

1127
00:53:12,930 --> 00:53:09,310
that we don't all you know panic and

1128
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:12,940
crack up but the old the old cases are

1129
00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:15,370
still important and as some of them are

1130
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:18,270
falling apart some of them haven't and I

1131
00:53:22,170 --> 00:53:20,650
it's it's not I don't think it's good

1132
00:53:24,750 --> 00:53:22,180
when younger people get impatient what

1133
00:53:26,550 --> 00:53:24,760
there are these all cases who cares well

1134
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:26,560
because that that's where all the stuff

1135
00:53:30,810 --> 00:53:28,930
now and people's attitudes toward it

1136
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:30,820
originated that's why there is still

1137
00:53:35,340 --> 00:53:34,240
important hmm yeah yeah a very good

1138
00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:35,350
point

1139
00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:37,680
you know Roswell we always talk about

1140
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:39,910
Roswell we probably talked about that a

1141
00:53:46,230 --> 00:53:44,530
million times on this show yeah that's

1142
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:46,240
that's not going away and and you know

1143
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:48,880
many many people think you know there

1144
00:53:54,330 --> 00:53:50,890
has been an explanation that has nothing

1145
00:53:56,340 --> 00:53:54,340
to do with UFOs I'm not convinced you

1146
00:54:00,240 --> 00:53:56,350
know mother thing I always fall back on

1147
00:54:02,610 --> 00:54:00,250
is and listeners may get tired of me

1148
00:54:05,610 --> 00:54:02,620
saying this but there was never any

1149
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:05,620
reason at all for the Army Air Force at

1150
00:54:09,540 --> 00:54:07,570
the time to come out with the press

1151
00:54:14,070 --> 00:54:09,550
release that they caught a flying disc

1152
00:54:19,260 --> 00:54:14,080
there was no reason at all that they had

1153
00:54:21,090 --> 00:54:19,270
to say that part of it I I agree 1947

1154
00:54:24,690 --> 00:54:21,100
think you know that that's easily lost

1155
00:54:26,850 --> 00:54:24,700
that was a long long time ago not not

1156
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:26,860
even remotely like this world you know

1157
00:54:31,850 --> 00:54:29,290
especially media-wise you're right they

1158
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:31,860
had no reason like why that specific

1159
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:35,290
thing and you know I'm not going to

1160
00:54:39,930 --> 00:54:36,730
belabor because you're aware of all this

1161
00:54:42,210 --> 00:54:39,940
stuff as much as I am that you know that

1162
00:54:44,940 --> 00:54:42,220
was some psyops you know psychological

1163
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:44,950
operation why is that you know it

1164
00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:46,930
wouldn't even be like all we're trying

1165
00:54:51,090 --> 00:54:49,240
to prepare for an alien invasion was -

1166
00:54:54,650 --> 00:54:51,100
that wasn't even on peoples in people's

1167
00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:54,660
minds thank you including the military

1168
00:55:03,660 --> 00:55:00,160
right right no no it's uh it's it's

1169
00:55:06,990 --> 00:55:03,670
really something and you know you know

1170
00:55:09,330 --> 00:55:07,000
what I had I think it was the seth

1171
00:55:12,990 --> 00:55:09,340
shostack on recently and he talked about

1172
00:55:15,930 --> 00:55:13,000
the Mogul and I understand you know of

1173
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:15,940
course they would not want to talk about

1174
00:55:22,010 --> 00:55:18,850
that in particular but still that that

1175
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:22,020
was absolutely no excuse in my book like

1176
00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:25,210
weather balloons yeah yeah but also

1177
00:55:32,250 --> 00:55:27,670
there was that mogul that had to do with

1178
00:55:36,270 --> 00:55:32,260
the listening device for a Russian the

1179
00:55:37,710 --> 00:55:36,280
atom bomb tech yep Nate so I don't know

1180
00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:37,720
picking up stars in the upper atmosphere

1181
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:43,150
right right yeah exactly but anyway we

1182
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:45,970
are about in just a minute here we're

1183
00:55:51,330 --> 00:55:48,400
ready to go into a minute or two were

1184
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:51,340
ready to go into a break and then when

1185
00:55:58,560 --> 00:55:54,090
we come back a little bit into the show

1186
00:56:01,980 --> 00:55:58,570
we will be taking calls on a different

1187
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:01,990
number not our normal number just one

1188
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:03,520
thing before we go into break it's kind

1189
00:56:13,980 --> 00:56:05,530
of a loose loose break let me go into it

1190
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:13,990
here the earth-like planets that have

1191
00:56:22,370 --> 00:56:18,130
been discovered in the last several

1192
00:56:25,650 --> 00:56:22,380
years do you think that gives more

1193
00:56:30,330 --> 00:56:25,660
credibility to I don't know credibility

1194
00:56:33,180 --> 00:56:30,340
is the right word for it more of a

1195
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:33,190
chance that there's intelligent life out

1196
00:56:41,370 --> 00:56:37,570
there I do think it has you know that's

1197
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:41,380
an okay word in my opinion again we got

1198
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:43,810
to be clear on that like well well who

1199
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:45,490
else's opinion would it be right but

1200
00:56:52,350 --> 00:56:49,570
anyhow yeah I I'm really I've been an

1201
00:56:55,020 --> 00:56:52,360
amateur astronomer since I was like 18

1202
00:56:58,500 --> 00:56:55,030
years old building telescope stuff so

1203
00:57:00,570 --> 00:56:58,510
that's a huge huge interest to me and I

1204
00:57:02,670 --> 00:57:00,580
really yeah I do think finding these

1205
00:57:05,310 --> 00:57:02,680
extrasolar you know her flight planets

1206
00:57:08,850 --> 00:57:05,320
and absolutely to the possibility that

1207
00:57:10,860 --> 00:57:08,860
we're not alone because you know I'm not

1208
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:10,870
even joking what a waste of space if

1209
00:57:17,580 --> 00:57:12,010
we're the only ones in the universe

1210
00:57:19,650 --> 00:57:17,590
right yeah yeah yeah yeah I think it's I

1211
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:19,660
think personally you know that it's it's

1212
00:57:26,690 --> 00:57:22,930
very possible I just don't know you know

1213
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:26,700
I mean I just don't know if we'll ever

1214
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:30,610
find out I don't know if if we are

1215
00:57:35,730 --> 00:57:33,520
actually being visited by intelligence

1216
00:57:39,540 --> 00:57:35,740
if that's actually what it is or part of

1217
00:57:42,780 --> 00:57:39,550
what it is you know I guess I could

1218
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:42,790
understand why they're avoiding us but

1219
00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:45,610
it's still right at they're paying close

1220
00:57:49,170 --> 00:57:47,110
attention and why wouldn't they if they

1221
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:49,180
discovered other life especially our

1222
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:52,210
type right right

1223
00:57:55,770 --> 00:57:54,400
you know I have heard people say

1224
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:55,780
something along the lines it would be

1225
00:58:00,060 --> 00:57:57,970
like us talking to ants so there would

1226
00:58:02,130 --> 00:58:00,070
be no real reason for it

1227
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:02,140
and that you know they could be that

1228
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:04,690
much more intelligent and you know that

1229
00:58:10,590 --> 00:58:07,410
is that is all these things are possible

1230
00:58:12,030 --> 00:58:10,600
yeah I can't I can't disagree with that

1231
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:12,040
right

1232
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:13,810
the intelligence gap would have to be in

1233
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:15,910
massive if they have the type to get

1234
00:58:22,110 --> 00:58:20,170
here exactly especially crossing the

1235
00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:22,120
amount of space that has to be crossed

1236
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:24,640
all right we're ready to go into a break

1237
00:58:29,940 --> 00:58:27,490
so hang in everyone we'll be right back

1238
00:58:37,700 --> 00:58:29,950
just be just one minute or two we'll be

1239
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:42,180
all right here we are we are back with

1240
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:45,490
Bill Grabowski bill welcome back to the

1241
00:58:51,690 --> 00:58:48,850
show oh thanks it's good to be here

1242
00:58:54,570 --> 00:58:51,700
and we have not talked too much about

1243
00:58:58,760 --> 00:58:54,580
your book again can you throw the title

1244
00:59:01,730 --> 00:58:58,770
out there yeah the title is backlight

1245
00:59:04,260 --> 00:59:01,740
perspectives on mysterious phenomena and

1246
00:59:06,060 --> 00:59:04,270
the reason it's called backlight is it

1247
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:06,070
has nothing to do with the the object

1248
00:59:12,900 --> 00:59:09,730
the backlight and maybe I was being a

1249
00:59:15,180 --> 00:59:12,910
little a little punished trying to be a

1250
00:59:16,500 --> 00:59:15,190
little bit funny whereas you know a lot

1251
00:59:20,210 --> 00:59:16,510
of been a lot of the so-called knowledge

1252
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:20,220
about UFOs and and paranormal phenomena

1253
00:59:26,130 --> 00:59:23,410
you know comes from the so-called black

1254
00:59:28,530 --> 00:59:26,140
world the secret world and uh so that

1255
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:28,540
that was why I titled it down like maybe

1256
00:59:32,730 --> 00:59:30,850
I can shed some light you know

1257
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:32,740
black operations and stuff so that's why

1258
00:59:39,090 --> 00:59:36,570
I called it black light and then the

1259
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:39,100
subtitle is probably more important

1260
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:41,890
because I wanted to be clear that there

1261
00:59:46,830 --> 00:59:43,690
every chapter in the book these are just

1262
00:59:50,460 --> 00:59:46,840
these are perspectives about okay what

1263
00:59:54,060 --> 00:59:50,470
could UFOs be you know what could a

1264
00:59:56,190 --> 00:59:54,070
poltergeist be not here's what I think

1265
00:59:58,170 --> 00:59:56,200
it is and you better believe you know

1266
01:00:01,260 --> 00:59:58,180
that this is true because I'm telling

1267
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:01,270
you it's it's based on a survey of you

1268
01:00:06,990 --> 01:00:04,210
know very skeptical people it's based on

1269
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:07,000
surveys of people who absolutely are

1270
01:00:10,410 --> 01:00:09,010
believers and they will not you know

1271
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:10,420
they don't want to hear otherwise and

1272
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:13,510
then also people who are in between like

1273
01:00:17,790 --> 01:00:15,850
well I'm not sure you know I would

1274
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:17,800
probably have to see it you know see a

1275
01:00:22,380 --> 01:00:21,130
UFO right before me and maybe even then

1276
01:00:24,540 --> 01:00:22,390
I still wouldn't think it was

1277
01:00:25,890 --> 01:00:24,550
extraterrestrial you know there's a lot

1278
01:00:27,570 --> 01:00:25,900
of it's based on

1279
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:27,580
how people feel about these things is

1280
01:00:31,530 --> 01:00:29,920
based on their I guess what the

1281
01:00:34,860 --> 01:00:31,540
psychologists would call your chronic

1282
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:34,870
emotional state if your anxiety ridden

1283
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:37,450
you're gonna have bad experiences if

1284
01:00:40,890 --> 01:00:39,280
you're a believer in the paranormal in

1285
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:40,900
UFOs you're probably going to have bad

1286
01:00:45,810 --> 01:00:43,510
experiences and then someone else who is

1287
01:00:48,780 --> 01:00:45,820
who is like let's just say a really

1288
01:00:50,550 --> 01:00:48,790
solid you know low anxiety person they

1289
01:00:52,350 --> 01:00:50,560
could see something and say well you

1290
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:52,360
know what that's really strange I don't

1291
01:00:57,840 --> 01:00:53,770
know what that is but it doesn't

1292
01:01:00,180 --> 01:00:57,850
frighten me so there you know there are

1293
01:01:01,860 --> 01:01:00,190
the whole the field as you mentioned

1294
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:01,870
earlier there's a lot of divisive mists

1295
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:05,920
and even if there was no internet it

1296
01:01:09,780 --> 01:01:07,690
still would be that way it was it was

1297
01:01:15,510 --> 01:01:09,790
that way in the you know in the 60s and

1298
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:15,520
in the 70s even even before that right

1299
01:01:24,060 --> 01:01:21,970
right well it is it it it really it

1300
01:01:28,590 --> 01:01:24,070
really it is interesting you know as

1301
01:01:30,890 --> 01:01:28,600
Mike my son has said before you know

1302
01:01:34,530 --> 01:01:30,900
whatever these things are

1303
01:01:36,390 --> 01:01:34,540
whether it's UFO or whether it's an

1304
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:36,400
encounter with what people think is a

1305
01:01:43,500 --> 01:01:40,450
ghost there's an answer for every single

1306
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:43,510
thing that happens but it's just that

1307
01:01:48,830 --> 01:01:45,010
sometimes we don't know what that answer

1308
01:01:51,870 --> 01:01:48,840
is right what seems to be happening now

1309
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:51,880
I also covered this in the book is that

1310
01:01:56,910 --> 01:01:53,770
the check the chapters called

1311
01:01:59,820 --> 01:01:56,920
so what and you know it sounds like a

1312
01:02:02,220 --> 01:01:59,830
little a little snarky but I'm serious

1313
01:02:05,730 --> 01:02:02,230
like so what what if UFO instruments to

1314
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:05,740
terrestrial what if you know there are

1315
01:02:12,300 --> 01:02:09,490
actual you know lingering consciousness

1316
01:02:13,830 --> 01:02:12,310
from from people who have died what what

1317
01:02:16,860 --> 01:02:13,840
what difference will that make to our

1318
01:02:18,540 --> 01:02:16,870
lives and as I just mentioned it all

1319
01:02:20,790 --> 01:02:18,550
depends on the individual some people

1320
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:20,800
actually will not care if they found out

1321
01:02:23,820 --> 01:02:22,810
UFOs were extraterrestrial

1322
01:02:27,150 --> 01:02:23,830
does that mean I don't have to go to

1323
01:02:29,220 --> 01:02:27,160
work tomorrow you know well no probably

1324
01:02:31,500 --> 01:02:29,230
you still have to go to work and it'll

1325
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:31,510
be a question of well now if they're

1326
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:33,730
approved to be extraterrestrial UFOs

1327
01:02:38,460 --> 01:02:36,010
that is okay well then what's up to the

1328
01:02:39,450 --> 01:02:38,470
individual to decide how do i how do I

1329
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:39,460
proceed from this

1330
01:02:48,270 --> 01:02:42,930
on what do I do or do I just ignore it

1331
01:02:52,770 --> 01:02:48,280
hmm and and and what do you think like

1332
01:02:54,990 --> 01:02:52,780
this society how would we handle

1333
01:02:59,730 --> 01:02:55,000
something like that how do you think we

1334
01:03:02,099 --> 01:02:59,740
would handle it I don't know I think I'm

1335
01:03:04,530 --> 01:03:02,109
kind of frightened like and as I just

1336
01:03:07,349 --> 01:03:04,540
mentioned okay right if we have let's

1337
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:07,359
say definitive proof that you know that

1338
01:03:12,390 --> 01:03:09,010
there's an example let's just say and on

1339
01:03:14,579 --> 01:03:12,400
an unusual object what was tracked as

1340
01:03:16,079 --> 01:03:14,589
has happened you know it turned out to

1341
01:03:18,450 --> 01:03:16,089
be an asteroid or something but was

1342
01:03:20,609 --> 01:03:18,460
tracked which it would be because we

1343
01:03:22,890 --> 01:03:20,619
know everything communications

1344
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:22,900
satellites classified satellites are

1345
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:24,970
tracking everything there's any kind of

1346
01:03:29,579 --> 01:03:27,520
air space intrusion or atmospheric entry

1347
01:03:30,780 --> 01:03:29,589
whatever you want to call it it's going

1348
01:03:34,260 --> 01:03:30,790
to be tracked there's going to be a

1349
01:03:38,010 --> 01:03:34,270
record and if a genuine UFO is tracked I

1350
01:03:39,780 --> 01:03:38,020
mean I have no idea of what the what the

1351
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:39,790
official reaction would be because he

1352
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:41,770
can't hide it you can't hide it anymore

1353
01:03:46,020 --> 01:03:43,410
there are people who are just amateurs

1354
01:03:48,900 --> 01:03:46,030
you know have the ability to tap into

1355
01:03:50,819 --> 01:03:48,910
communication of satellites and you know

1356
01:03:52,589 --> 01:03:50,829
you can't you can't hide it anymore so

1357
01:03:55,109 --> 01:03:52,599
there it would be notice whether there

1358
01:03:57,420 --> 01:03:55,119
was official acknowledgement or not and

1359
01:03:59,760 --> 01:03:57,430
then the reaction I think it would it

1360
01:04:02,370 --> 01:03:59,770
would be like a literal Rorschach

1361
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:02,380
inkblot test depending on what kind of a

1362
01:04:08,549 --> 01:04:04,450
person you are people some people would

1363
01:04:11,250 --> 01:04:08,559
panic but I think most would be amazed

1364
01:04:12,539 --> 01:04:11,260
and then realize well I still have to

1365
01:04:14,370 --> 01:04:12,549
live I'm still me

1366
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:14,380
you know I'm still alive and I've only

1367
01:04:19,319 --> 01:04:17,170
got so much time to live yeah yeah I

1368
01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:19,329
agree with you I I think that's I think

1369
01:04:24,329 --> 01:04:22,240
that's what would happen I think you

1370
01:04:26,970 --> 01:04:24,339
know there may be a pause and reflection

1371
01:04:30,210 --> 01:04:26,980
and then a move on

1372
01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:30,220
like you say you know I I do think there

1373
01:04:34,260 --> 01:04:31,510
was I think there would be a big pause

1374
01:04:36,900 --> 01:04:34,270
really because the initial reaction I

1375
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:36,910
think possibly with almost everyone is

1376
01:04:43,589 --> 01:04:39,210
going to be they're gonna be frightened

1377
01:04:49,430 --> 01:04:43,599
some some certainly you know whether

1378
01:04:52,650 --> 01:04:49,440
they're predatorial or you know I

1379
01:04:52,980 --> 01:04:52,660
remember watching The Twilight Zone and

1380
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:52,990
I

1381
01:04:59,609 --> 01:04:55,690
can't remember the exact episode but it

1382
01:05:03,510 --> 01:04:59,619
was spaceship landed and this really

1383
01:05:07,530 --> 01:05:03,520
tall robot or something came out and

1384
01:05:09,300 --> 01:05:07,540
everybody was getting on board the ship

1385
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:09,310
and there was a book they were trying to

1386
01:05:17,820 --> 01:05:13,570
crack the code to and the book was given

1387
01:05:20,940 --> 01:05:17,830
to someone you know a leader or

1388
01:05:23,010 --> 01:05:20,950
something like that in the recipe yeah I

1389
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:23,020
was how to serve man end up being a

1390
01:05:31,260 --> 01:05:28,410
recipe book that was our episode

1391
01:05:33,570 --> 01:05:31,270
interrupting I was like pretty much

1392
01:05:39,810 --> 01:05:33,580
raised on you the original twilight's

1393
01:05:43,170 --> 01:05:39,820
yes I remember that scared the heck out

1394
01:05:44,700 --> 01:05:43,180
of me as a kid it scared me too I was

1395
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:44,710
I'm kind of amazed I was allowed to

1396
01:05:48,990 --> 01:05:47,440
watch that yeah show it all yeah cuz I

1397
01:05:50,820 --> 01:05:49,000
was pretty young when the original

1398
01:05:57,210 --> 01:05:50,830
series came out like early sixties right

1399
01:05:59,690 --> 01:05:57,220
right but I think there of course you

1400
01:06:02,010 --> 01:05:59,700
know I mean it's all about what their

1401
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:02,020
possible intentions are I mean you could

1402
01:06:08,550 --> 01:06:06,010
speculate all you want but if they've

1403
01:06:10,380 --> 01:06:08,560
been if it's actually what we're seeing

1404
01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:10,390
here or some of what we're seeing here

1405
01:06:16,530 --> 01:06:13,980
so far so good is what I have to say

1406
01:06:18,780 --> 01:06:16,540
yeah we've been around a long time and

1407
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:18,790
I'm thinking like I used to pay closer

1408
01:06:24,420 --> 01:06:22,930
attention to how far our very first you

1409
01:06:25,470 --> 01:06:24,430
know let's just call it broadcast

1410
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:25,480
signals mmm-hmm

1411
01:06:30,359 --> 01:06:28,930
I've traveled in space you know let's

1412
01:06:32,250 --> 01:06:30,369
just let's just say we've been active

1413
01:06:35,700 --> 01:06:32,260
with electromagnet if --'tis since like

1414
01:06:37,710 --> 01:06:35,710
what the late 18-hundreds I'm thinking

1415
01:06:40,740 --> 01:06:37,720
like Alex Alexander Graham Bell all the

1416
01:06:42,810 --> 01:06:40,750
way back right and those emanations are

1417
01:06:44,220 --> 01:06:42,820
in space only been out there you know a

1418
01:06:46,410 --> 01:06:44,230
hundred plus years

1419
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:46,420
so therefore they've traveled you know

1420
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:48,130
the speed of light whatever and then

1421
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:50,770
that signal is gone so far and that's as

1422
01:06:54,930 --> 01:06:52,810
far as it can go and you've got the

1423
01:06:56,970 --> 01:06:54,940
whole well how far away is the nearest

1424
01:06:59,300 --> 01:06:56,980
star well it's four light-years Alpha

1425
01:07:03,630 --> 01:06:59,310
Centauri I think it's the closest one

1426
01:07:06,180 --> 01:07:03,640
not not a not a Sun type star but the

1427
01:07:06,930 --> 01:07:06,190
depending on what sort of life is there

1428
01:07:08,849 --> 01:07:06,940
if any

1429
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:08,859
that might not matter you know you go

1430
01:07:15,029 --> 01:07:10,240
back to the holy cookies silicon-based

1431
01:07:18,270 --> 01:07:15,039
right yeah amazing

1432
01:07:21,299 --> 01:07:18,280
so we will take calls if someone wants

1433
01:07:23,279 --> 01:07:21,309
to call in it's gonna be our old call-in

1434
01:07:25,710 --> 01:07:23,289
number because we're not live on K GRA

1435
01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:25,720
we do not have a screener so you'll be

1436
01:07:31,770 --> 01:07:28,960
coming into the show live and that call

1437
01:07:36,690 --> 01:07:31,780
number is six zero three nine six seven

1438
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:36,700
four OH three oh and and anyone can call

1439
01:07:40,730 --> 01:07:39,010
as a matter of fact I'm gonna say this

1440
01:07:44,609 --> 01:07:40,740
the first person to call in right now

1441
01:07:48,539 --> 01:07:44,619
will get a free t-shirt if you're

1442
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:48,549
looking on let me see if you're looking

1443
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:52,690
on YouTube it's just right here podcast

1444
01:07:58,260 --> 01:07:56,170
UFO t-shirt so that number six zero

1445
01:08:00,960 --> 01:07:58,270
three nine six seven four OH three oh

1446
01:08:03,180 --> 01:08:00,970
and all I can do is tell you that I'll

1447
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:03,190
save your phone number and I'll give you

1448
01:08:09,329 --> 01:08:06,130
a call tomorrow and make sure you get

1449
01:08:12,510 --> 01:08:09,339
that that t-shirt one more time I'm

1450
01:08:14,329 --> 01:08:12,520
going to just show the t-shirt images

1451
01:08:17,970 --> 01:08:14,339
this right here

1452
01:08:20,340 --> 01:08:17,980
and we do have a website where we sell

1453
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:20,350
merchandise and that's right on podcast

1454
01:08:25,169 --> 01:08:23,890
UFO calm so all that info is under

1455
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:25,179
merchandise there with the t-shirts

1456
01:08:32,249 --> 01:08:28,810
coffee cups you name it anyway first

1457
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:32,259
person to call in gets a free t-shirt I

1458
01:08:41,689 --> 01:08:35,770
get that really crispy well you could

1459
01:08:49,110 --> 01:08:41,699
always hang up and call back right but

1460
01:08:52,050 --> 01:08:49,120
anyway as far as the future what do you

1461
01:08:53,309 --> 01:08:52,060
how do you see the the future and UFOs

1462
01:08:55,709 --> 01:08:53,319
you know everybody talks about

1463
01:08:57,180 --> 01:08:55,719
disclosure I mean I don't think the

1464
01:08:59,309 --> 01:08:57,190
government is going to be actually

1465
01:09:00,860 --> 01:08:59,319
disclosing personally I don't think well

1466
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:00,870
what are your thoughts on all that oh

1467
01:09:04,740 --> 01:09:03,489
well I mean I'm an agreement with that I

1468
01:09:07,079 --> 01:09:04,750
don't think there's going to be any kind

1469
01:09:09,180 --> 01:09:07,089
of disclosure because as you well know

1470
01:09:13,650 --> 01:09:09,190
there were there was a lot of a lot of

1471
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:13,660
talk about that well over the past 10

1472
01:09:19,950 --> 01:09:16,239
years 15 years with about Steven Greer

1473
01:09:22,769 --> 01:09:19,960
oh yeah and not you know

1474
01:09:24,300 --> 01:09:22,779
nothing came of that and then you know

1475
01:09:26,370 --> 01:09:24,310
again depending on you know you know

1476
01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:26,380
what kind of mood you're in then I'm

1477
01:09:30,380 --> 01:09:29,260
here I was hearing like what was this

1478
01:09:32,370 --> 01:09:30,390
[Music]

1479
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:32,380
information you know designed to

1480
01:09:38,940 --> 01:09:35,890
manipulate or is this misinformation and

1481
01:09:40,650 --> 01:09:38,950
I was never I was never quite sure on it

1482
01:09:42,660 --> 01:09:40,660
how to take that but I'm always like

1483
01:09:46,110 --> 01:09:42,670
well yeah I'm wide open for disclosure

1484
01:09:48,930 --> 01:09:46,120
please bring it on yeah hey we actually

1485
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:48,940
have a caller okay here right we have -

1486
01:09:52,349 --> 01:09:50,770
we have a - someone called in I'm

1487
01:09:57,860 --> 01:09:52,359
writing down this number before I bring

1488
01:10:00,150 --> 01:09:57,870
him in before hmm hang on just a second

1489
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:00,160
maybe he didn't come in call are you on

1490
01:10:07,380 --> 01:10:05,410
the line now yes hi what's your name my

1491
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:07,390
name is Ryan from South Carolina hey

1492
01:10:10,620 --> 01:10:09,130
Ryan how you doing so we will talk

1493
01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:10,630
tomorrow get just they'll get you a

1494
01:10:14,100 --> 01:10:11,920
t-shirt we have someone else trying to

1495
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:14,110
call at the same time but you beat

1496
01:10:19,979 --> 01:10:17,890
everyone out okay well I gotta admit the

1497
01:10:25,830 --> 01:10:19,989
t-shirt was a huge motivation

1498
01:10:27,420 --> 01:10:25,840
way to go Ryan so Ryan I I'm gonna try

1499
01:10:30,959 --> 01:10:27,430
to write down your number hear it I

1500
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:30,969
can't oh I got it I got it okay all

1501
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:31,690
right I got it

1502
01:10:36,060 --> 01:10:33,130
so I'll give you a ring tomorrow and

1503
01:10:37,380 --> 01:10:36,070
we'll we'll settle up with that and so

1504
01:10:38,940 --> 01:10:37,390
do you have a you actually have a

1505
01:10:40,440 --> 01:10:38,950
question or you want to wish us all

1506
01:10:44,190 --> 01:10:40,450
Merry Christmas you have a question for

1507
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:44,200
our guest well uh let me see ya there

1508
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:45,610
first of all do want to wish everyone a

1509
01:10:48,570 --> 01:10:48,370
Merry Christmas of course and I wanted

1510
01:10:50,820 --> 01:10:48,580
that

1511
01:10:52,709 --> 01:10:50,830
now I turned in late he may have already

1512
01:10:56,820 --> 01:10:52,719
talked about this I know you guys were

1513
01:11:00,479 --> 01:10:56,830
talking over the old cases if as I tuned

1514
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:00,489
in I just wanted to ask his thoughts on

1515
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:02,770
a very old case Roswell I know you had

1516
01:11:08,970 --> 01:11:05,520
mentioned you had mentioned you're

1517
01:11:10,890 --> 01:11:08,980
wondering why you know the army released

1518
01:11:12,990 --> 01:11:10,900
that statement my pain is because Marcel

1519
01:11:15,420 --> 01:11:13,000
kind of influenced people to do it but

1520
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:15,430
anyway I just wanted to catch his

1521
01:11:21,380 --> 01:11:17,410
thoughts on it unless he has already

1522
01:11:23,670 --> 01:11:21,390
given those thoughts no I haven't really

1523
01:11:25,979 --> 01:11:23,680
thanks for that question by the way I

1524
01:11:28,979 --> 01:11:25,989
haven't really gotten into that and this

1525
01:11:31,410 --> 01:11:28,989
thing is like you know human evolution

1526
01:11:33,180 --> 01:11:31,420
in general I keep I'm changing my

1527
01:11:37,530 --> 01:11:33,190
thoughts on Roswell I'm not

1528
01:11:39,510 --> 01:11:37,540
Tord I don't know necessarily like they

1529
01:11:41,850 --> 01:11:39,520
were said earlier like extraterrestrial

1530
01:11:45,300 --> 01:11:41,860
is that the explanation well you know it

1531
01:11:47,250 --> 01:11:45,310
could be and then I either I had the

1532
01:11:50,700 --> 01:11:47,260
good or bad luck to read this this giant

1533
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:50,710
book by annie jacobs called area 51

1534
01:11:57,330 --> 01:11:54,250
arnie and she mm-hmm so your familiar

1535
01:11:59,280 --> 01:11:57,340
example and maybe Brian I don't know if

1536
01:12:02,000 --> 01:11:59,290
you are or not but the person who wrote

1537
01:12:06,150 --> 01:12:02,010
that book solo of respected journalist

1538
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:06,160
named Annie Jacobson and she said that

1539
01:12:11,130 --> 01:12:08,560
she interviewed guys you know from it

1540
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:11,140
from the old school right who know from

1541
01:12:17,370 --> 01:12:14,770
area 51 they were saying no was it was a

1542
01:12:19,740 --> 01:12:17,380
Russian psychological ops because he

1543
01:12:21,390 --> 01:12:19,750
went because inside the craft there

1544
01:12:23,610 --> 01:12:21,400
there was Cyrillic writing in there

1545
01:12:25,830 --> 01:12:23,620
Cyrillic being you know Russian language

1546
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:25,840
and the first thing I thought was okay

1547
01:12:29,370 --> 01:12:27,130
if this was supposed to be a

1548
01:12:31,050 --> 01:12:29,380
psychological you know trying to fake

1549
01:12:34,110 --> 01:12:31,060
people out just to see how they'd react

1550
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:34,120
why the heck would you would you like

1551
01:12:38,459 --> 01:12:36,130
basically sign your name in there and

1552
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:38,469
say no this is from this is from you

1553
01:12:42,990 --> 01:12:40,449
know a different biosphere this is from

1554
01:12:45,290 --> 01:12:43,000
outer space so that other than hang well

1555
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:45,300
with me at explanation for Roswell and

1556
01:12:50,459 --> 01:12:48,010
Annie Jacobson is saying well this is

1557
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:50,469
what she got that story from from people

1558
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:52,690
actually worked in area 51 and then I

1559
01:12:58,260 --> 01:12:55,090
just like man they they really played

1560
01:13:02,070 --> 01:12:58,270
you so it's but to get back to your

1561
01:13:04,500 --> 01:13:02,080
question um personally I have no idea

1562
01:13:06,959 --> 01:13:04,510
what happened there for a long time and

1563
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:06,969
in my book black light I was saying

1564
01:13:12,180 --> 01:13:09,730
Roswell had had to bend some kind of

1565
01:13:14,450 --> 01:13:12,190
just like an experiment that went wrong

1566
01:13:19,830 --> 01:13:14,460
because supposedly a lot of people died

1567
01:13:21,390 --> 01:13:19,840
after you know the 1947 incident so then

1568
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:21,400
I was thinking like what was it a germ

1569
01:13:26,220 --> 01:13:24,130
warfare thing gone wrong and the only

1570
01:13:27,900 --> 01:13:26,230
way to cover it up was to make it even

1571
01:13:30,540 --> 01:13:27,910
scarier by saying it was a crashed

1572
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:30,550
flying saucer right so that that that's

1573
01:13:34,410 --> 01:13:32,290
what I was going for for a long time now

1574
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:34,420
I'm now I'm not really sure except that

1575
01:13:40,650 --> 01:13:38,410
something definitely happened yeah you

1576
01:13:42,959 --> 01:13:40,660
know I've kind of become a skeptic of

1577
01:13:45,450 --> 01:13:42,969
Roswell over the years and one thing

1578
01:13:46,890 --> 01:13:45,460
that occurred to me at one point is why

1579
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:46,900
would the American governor

1580
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:48,640
conceal it and I'll tell you why they

1581
01:13:52,380 --> 01:13:50,770
probably why they in my opinion I don't

1582
01:13:56,810 --> 01:13:52,390
know that they actually would and here's

1583
01:14:00,840 --> 01:13:56,820
why if you remember the year before

1584
01:14:03,780 --> 01:14:00,850
excuse me a year later the Stalin

1585
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:03,790
blockaded Berlin and you know apparently

1586
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:07,890
apparently he wasn't intimidated by our

1587
01:14:12,570 --> 01:14:10,810
monopoly on the atomic bomb well if he

1588
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:12,580
wasn't intimidated about that I mean

1589
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:13,810
wouldn't you want to send him a message

1590
01:14:18,660 --> 01:14:16,570
you know hey bud not only do we have a

1591
01:14:21,149 --> 01:14:18,670
first-rate military a monopoly on the

1592
01:14:24,870 --> 01:14:21,159
atomic bomb by the way we also have

1593
01:14:25,979 --> 01:14:24,880
alien technology you know do you really

1594
01:14:26,939 --> 01:14:25,989
want to mess with us

1595
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:26,949
do you want to that you want to keep

1596
01:14:33,180 --> 01:14:31,690
pulling these stunts and I just I'm glad

1597
01:14:35,430 --> 01:14:33,190
that you brought that up because that

1598
01:14:37,649 --> 01:14:35,440
that's that's the thing right there that

1599
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:37,659
I was forgetting now if a minute if

1600
01:14:42,390 --> 01:14:40,170
America made that claim hey we have

1601
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:42,400
extraterrestrial technology Powell you

1602
01:14:47,669 --> 01:14:44,770
do not mess with that I mean what more

1603
01:14:50,070 --> 01:14:47,679
reason do you need right yeah yeah I

1604
01:14:51,450 --> 01:14:50,080
mean he would probably I did they

1605
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:51,460
probably did they probably run right

1606
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:54,850
back to Russia after she said the very

1607
01:14:58,320 --> 01:14:56,650
least they were at the very least they

1608
01:14:59,820 --> 01:14:58,330
wouldn't be pulling me I mean Korea may

1609
01:15:01,470 --> 01:14:59,830
have never happened I mean you know

1610
01:15:02,729 --> 01:15:01,480
either I don't know how many I don't

1611
01:15:04,950 --> 01:15:02,739
know what he would have thought about

1612
01:15:07,590 --> 01:15:04,960
pulling after say after knowing that

1613
01:15:11,310 --> 01:15:07,600
plus we had monopoly when Tommy bombs up

1614
01:15:12,930 --> 01:15:11,320
at least until 49 yeah and then you

1615
01:15:14,220 --> 01:15:12,940
would have to the Americans have to be

1616
01:15:15,419 --> 01:15:14,230
seeing ourselves what we better hope

1617
01:15:17,850 --> 01:15:15,429
they don't call our bluff because we

1618
01:15:21,870 --> 01:15:17,860
don't have alien technology if you know

1619
01:15:23,939 --> 01:15:21,880
if that was actually the case but if it

1620
01:15:25,979 --> 01:15:23,949
actually was an alien crash he'd want to

1621
01:15:28,350 --> 01:15:25,989
you know want to keep tilting those

1622
01:15:30,060 --> 01:15:28,360
scales because they had to be thinking

1623
01:15:32,910 --> 01:15:30,070
they had to be thinking themselves well

1624
01:15:34,590 --> 01:15:32,920
look you know I mean they likely got

1625
01:15:35,910 --> 01:15:34,600
into the Manhattan Project they'll get

1626
01:15:38,490 --> 01:15:35,920
they'll find out about this eventually

1627
01:15:40,770 --> 01:15:38,500
anyway I mean say you know let's let's

1628
01:15:42,899 --> 01:15:40,780
let's let's go ahead and tell them and

1629
01:15:45,090 --> 01:15:42,909
basically cinema so I mean a lot of

1630
01:15:47,850 --> 01:15:45,100
people think the the atomic bombings of

1631
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:47,860
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were done is kind

1632
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:50,050
of a show of force to the Russians and

1633
01:15:53,910 --> 01:15:52,090
basically say you know look you know we

1634
01:15:55,709 --> 01:15:53,920
don't hesitate to get out the big stuff

1635
01:15:57,629 --> 01:15:55,719
well you know if you're into sending a

1636
01:15:59,950 --> 01:15:57,639
message I that's one message I would

1637
01:16:02,660 --> 01:15:59,960
send them meat

1638
01:16:05,420 --> 01:16:02,670
yeah that's right that's an undeniable

1639
01:16:08,660 --> 01:16:05,430
show of force so to speak you know well

1640
01:16:12,380 --> 01:16:08,670
that's what interesting topic anything

1641
01:16:13,940 --> 01:16:12,390
else here right record okay well um also

1642
01:16:16,940 --> 01:16:13,950
I'll just make it easier for you if you

1643
01:16:19,970 --> 01:16:16,950
would have just email me right now at

1644
01:16:23,060 --> 01:16:19,980
martinet podcast UFO calm Oh we'll get

1645
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:23,070
you a t-shirt okay thank you sir

1646
01:16:28,820 --> 01:16:25,290
all right thanks right yeah all right

1647
01:16:32,090 --> 01:16:28,830
the call so that line is open and a

1648
01:16:33,830 --> 01:16:32,100
probably feel generous enough to give

1649
01:16:35,270 --> 01:16:33,840
out another t-shirt if someone would

1650
01:16:42,650 --> 01:16:35,280
like to call it

1651
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:42,660
so that is 603 967 403 oh and now

1652
01:16:48,740 --> 01:16:45,410
interesting point I've never ever

1653
01:16:52,940 --> 01:16:48,750
thought of the subject that you know

1654
01:16:57,890 --> 01:16:52,950
Ryan brought up as a never thought of a

1655
01:17:00,950 --> 01:16:57,900
show of force a show of power of reverse

1656
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:00,960
technology or anything like that so we

1657
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:03,770
do that outer caller coming on here

1658
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:06,930
interesting topic caller what's your

1659
01:17:16,370 --> 01:17:08,730
name and where you're calling from

1660
01:17:19,850 --> 01:17:16,380
first name caller can you hear us I see

1661
01:17:23,510 --> 01:17:19,860
a caller but I'm not hearing them hello

1662
01:17:26,630 --> 01:17:23,520
caller all right

1663
01:17:28,700 --> 01:17:26,640
maybe they dropped off here so that line

1664
01:17:34,220 --> 01:17:28,710
again once again is open six oh three

1665
01:17:35,750 --> 01:17:34,230
nine six seven four Oh 300 it says miss

1666
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:35,760
call strange I don't know how that

1667
01:17:42,650 --> 01:17:38,610
happened I picked it up try calling back

1668
01:17:46,310 --> 01:17:42,660
and but no that is a that is an

1669
01:17:49,370 --> 01:17:46,320
interesting take on that whole situation

1670
01:17:52,460 --> 01:17:49,380
I would have never thought of that it is

1671
01:17:54,230 --> 01:17:52,470
and another part of that or I guess the

1672
01:17:55,970 --> 01:17:54,240
part of it is you know let's say that

1673
01:17:57,950 --> 01:17:55,980
there was you know there was an actual

1674
01:18:00,140 --> 01:17:57,960
crash of an extraterrestrial vehicle

1675
01:18:04,460 --> 01:18:00,150
would we be able to like reverse

1676
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:04,470
engineer it in 1947 or even now I know

1677
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:06,090
chances will be better now but back then

1678
01:18:12,050 --> 01:18:10,050
and I I could it's like unimaginable you

1679
01:18:15,220 --> 01:18:12,060
know I've heard people liken it to

1680
01:18:19,460 --> 01:18:15,230
going back to the Civil War with a

1681
01:18:24,050 --> 01:18:19,470
iPhone and spy knock yourself out

1682
01:18:26,030 --> 01:18:24,060
yeah here you go yeah you could easily

1683
01:18:27,590 --> 01:18:26,040
say this came from another planet and in

1684
01:18:27,770 --> 01:18:27,600
civil war time they would say I believe

1685
01:18:38,330 --> 01:18:27,780
you

1686
01:18:40,660 --> 01:18:38,340
Michael masters on several months ago I

1687
01:18:44,110 --> 01:18:40,670
think three three or four months ago and

1688
01:18:48,140 --> 01:18:44,120
his thought was that it's a possibility

1689
01:18:50,150 --> 01:18:48,150
he's an anthropologist and a professor

1690
01:18:53,180 --> 01:18:50,160
or anything he was thinking that it's

1691
01:18:56,690 --> 01:18:53,190
possible with how evolution is going

1692
01:18:59,240 --> 01:18:56,700
that we may be looking at us in the

1693
01:19:01,780 --> 01:18:59,250
future time travelers and I thought wow

1694
01:19:03,050 --> 01:19:01,790
what another one another fascinating oh

1695
01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:03,060
yeah

1696
01:19:08,900 --> 01:19:06,450
from a completely different direction

1697
01:19:11,540 --> 01:19:08,910
which which could be equally frightening

1698
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:11,550
you know yeah but that's been played a

1699
01:19:15,710 --> 01:19:13,290
big time and you know in science fiction

1700
01:19:18,290 --> 01:19:15,720
in literature and in the movies where we

1701
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:18,300
could be like completely unrecognizable

1702
01:19:21,650 --> 01:19:20,250
to ourselves and you know whatever

1703
01:19:23,300 --> 01:19:21,660
survivors are some horrible

1704
01:19:27,230 --> 01:19:23,310
environmental things gone wrong or

1705
01:19:28,940 --> 01:19:27,240
whatever well I don't if we turn into

1706
01:19:31,820 --> 01:19:28,950
Gray's I certainly don't think we've

1707
01:19:35,420 --> 01:19:31,830
become more attractive in my opinion and

1708
01:19:39,740 --> 01:19:35,430
that's generally what evolution seems to

1709
01:19:41,060 --> 01:19:39,750
have done so I don't know he did have

1710
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:41,070
answers for things like

1711
01:19:47,570 --> 01:19:43,170
the gray pigmentation and everything

1712
01:19:50,210 --> 01:19:47,580
which was it was pretty amazing actually

1713
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:50,220
here's the did he cover like well in in

1714
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:53,610
far future says we would be like I'm

1715
01:19:57,710 --> 01:19:55,170
just guessing here like we'd be more

1716
01:20:00,380 --> 01:19:57,720
sedentary therefore we have less muscle

1717
01:20:02,570 --> 01:20:00,390
it sure in the legs and you know why our

1718
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:02,580
heads oh because of because of you know

1719
01:20:06,080 --> 01:20:04,050
or using them were marked would be

1720
01:20:09,620 --> 01:20:06,090
trapped in the mind and using the body

1721
01:20:13,220 --> 01:20:09,630
less that is a really good point that

1722
01:20:16,390 --> 01:20:13,230
never came up but you know that's that's

1723
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:16,400
the way we're headed you know with

1724
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:18,810
technology you know less things we have

1725
01:20:22,790 --> 01:20:21,210
to do and you know more time glued to a

1726
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:22,800
screen of who knows what it will be in

1727
01:20:27,319 --> 01:20:25,530
the future okay actually

1728
01:20:28,970 --> 01:20:27,329
first first read that that particular

1729
01:20:30,770 --> 01:20:28,980
theory if you want to call it

1730
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:30,780
speculation from Whitley Strieber

1731
01:20:35,060 --> 01:20:32,489
when he's questioning himself in

1732
01:20:37,100 --> 01:20:35,070
communion but what could they be and I

1733
01:20:38,209 --> 01:20:37,110
think he brought it up like well what if

1734
01:20:40,370 --> 01:20:38,219
what if they're us from some

1735
01:20:43,939 --> 01:20:40,380
unimaginable future and this is why the

1736
01:20:47,660 --> 01:20:43,949
Grays looked this way it's interesting

1737
01:20:50,569 --> 01:20:47,670
yeah you know it who knows this so that

1738
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:50,579
line don't the call tried to call in we

1739
01:21:00,379 --> 01:20:54,650
still have a t-shirt to giveaway 603 967

1740
01:21:05,689 --> 01:21:00,389
403 oh if you'd like to call in and as

1741
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:05,699
far as the military technology so you

1742
01:21:11,089 --> 01:21:08,010
you're thinking you talked about it the

1743
01:21:14,450 --> 01:21:11,099
possibility of some type of drone do you

1744
01:21:17,330 --> 01:21:14,460
think that the military is the secret

1745
01:21:20,649 --> 01:21:17,340
projects are so advanced so much more

1746
01:21:24,830 --> 01:21:20,659
advanced than we know of or can imagine

1747
01:21:27,919 --> 01:21:24,840
and if so why aren't we using it as

1748
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:27,929
wartime you know threats again like you

1749
01:21:35,750 --> 01:21:31,650
said the power of threats if we had a

1750
01:21:37,370 --> 01:21:35,760
damn good point I think that I don't

1751
01:21:39,410 --> 01:21:37,380
know if it's generally accepted in the

1752
01:21:41,419 --> 01:21:39,420
maim and be a cliche at this point but

1753
01:21:45,350 --> 01:21:41,429
personally I happen to accept that is

1754
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:45,360
that the military technology appears to

1755
01:21:51,350 --> 01:21:47,730
be about 15 years ahead of what we

1756
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:51,360
actually you know see publicly and I

1757
01:21:57,890 --> 01:21:54,210
think this that disprove doubt was just

1758
01:21:59,990 --> 01:21:57,900
with the f-117 stealth fighter when that

1759
01:22:02,810 --> 01:22:00,000
was released or you don't revealed if

1760
01:22:04,250 --> 01:22:02,820
you want to say in 1983 it was a lot of

1761
01:22:06,439 --> 01:22:04,260
people were shocked by that they were

1762
01:22:09,529 --> 01:22:06,449
startled I know I was I was like this

1763
01:22:11,089 --> 01:22:09,539
what is this thing and then to learn

1764
01:22:14,990 --> 01:22:11,099
that they have been developing it since

1765
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:15,000
you know long long before I mean in fact

1766
01:22:20,149 --> 01:22:17,010
in that the area 51 book I mentioned

1767
01:22:24,740 --> 01:22:20,159
there are photographs of prototypes mmm

1768
01:22:27,470 --> 01:22:24,750
and when you like the X's XR 71

1769
01:22:30,350 --> 01:22:27,480
blackbirds a long pointy ship mm-hmm

1770
01:22:32,270 --> 01:22:30,360
super supersonic or high even hypersonic

1771
01:22:34,850 --> 01:22:32,280
that was on the drawing boards like in

1772
01:22:36,799 --> 01:22:34,860
their late fifties like incredibly

1773
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:36,809
advanced looking it in fact it still is

1774
01:22:40,490 --> 01:22:38,970
even though it's been retired

1775
01:22:42,380 --> 01:22:40,500
it's an incredibly advanced looking

1776
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:42,390
aircraft it was in development a long

1777
01:22:47,900 --> 01:22:45,090
time ago and see these these focus and

1778
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:47,910
so long ago like wow it's it's startling

1779
01:22:52,580 --> 01:22:49,290
like we're like literally

1780
01:22:54,650 --> 01:22:52,590
science-fictional looking on Carnival

1781
01:22:59,660 --> 01:22:54,660
I'm trying to take this collar collar

1782
01:23:01,640 --> 01:22:59,670
you there doesn't seem to be picking the

1783
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:01,650
same persons trying to call in and just

1784
01:23:07,630 --> 01:23:05,130
not seem to be picking them up call are

1785
01:23:11,900 --> 01:23:07,640
you there get Harris

1786
01:23:18,020 --> 01:23:11,910
call her I have no idea why that's not

1787
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:18,030
working and next week's gonna be the

1788
01:23:24,770 --> 01:23:21,330
same thing because we have to oh by the

1789
01:23:27,890 --> 01:23:24,780
wait for the listeners next week yeah I

1790
01:23:29,690 --> 01:23:27,900
see the caller try to get in I tried to

1791
01:23:32,570 --> 01:23:29,700
take him and it wouldn't it wouldn't

1792
01:23:34,930 --> 01:23:32,580
work I could just say if you're

1793
01:23:37,550 --> 01:23:34,940
listening try try again

1794
01:23:39,500 --> 01:23:37,560
next week our show is going to be at the

1795
01:23:42,470 --> 01:23:39,510
same time but it's going to be on Sunday

1796
01:23:46,030 --> 01:23:42,480
night you know ahead of New Year's Eve

1797
01:23:49,970 --> 01:23:46,040
so that would be on YouTube once again

1798
01:23:52,580 --> 01:23:49,980
Sunday night 6 to 8 p.m. Eastern

1799
01:23:54,710 --> 01:23:52,590
Standard Time and that's going to be

1800
01:23:57,260 --> 01:23:54,720
about Star Trek it's totally off the UFO

1801
01:24:06,560 --> 01:23:57,270
topic but it should be a lot of fun

1802
01:24:09,770 --> 01:24:06,570
so anyway bill so as far as what do you

1803
01:24:15,010 --> 01:24:09,780
consider is the most curious UFO case

1804
01:24:18,860 --> 01:24:15,020
out there that you've looked into well

1805
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:18,870
most curious ones still in my head all

1806
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:21,330
the time because I think I I once had it

1807
01:24:25,010 --> 01:24:23,370
fighting I was so called they're just

1808
01:24:27,500 --> 01:24:25,020
called referred to as black triangles

1809
01:24:30,350 --> 01:24:27,510
these days oh yes mm-hmm or they have

1810
01:24:32,750 --> 01:24:30,360
been for a while since the I first heard

1811
01:24:35,380 --> 01:24:32,760
about them during the report of the

1812
01:24:37,970 --> 01:24:35,390
Hudson Valley River sighting oh yeah

1813
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:37,980
so up in Prague know who unfortunately

1814
01:24:43,250 --> 01:24:41,250
has I don't know now he is not taken

1815
01:24:45,970 --> 01:24:43,260
seriously anymore because it was found

1816
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:45,980
out that he I think he faked some

1817
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:48,090
educational credits or something like

1818
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:48,570
that

1819
01:24:52,490 --> 01:24:51,090
oh but anyway he was he was co-author of

1820
01:24:54,830 --> 01:24:52,500
the book

1821
01:25:00,230 --> 01:24:54,840
it's called night siege the Hudson River

1822
01:25:02,510 --> 01:25:00,240
Hudson Valley's sightings and that III

1823
01:25:04,610 --> 01:25:02,520
had a sighting of what I thought and

1824
01:25:07,910 --> 01:25:04,620
then I still think just then it was it

1825
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:07,920
was a triangular shape vehicle and it

1826
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:10,290
was dark I saw it at night and had white

1827
01:25:15,380 --> 01:25:13,290
lights in a triangular pattern and it

1828
01:25:16,910 --> 01:25:15,390
didn't make a lot of noise and I you

1829
01:25:20,480 --> 01:25:16,920
know I was interested in UFOs at this

1830
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:20,490
point this was in the early 90s and I

1831
01:25:25,610 --> 01:25:22,770
was staying there looking at and and

1832
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:25,620
right at that point asking myself this

1833
01:25:30,890 --> 01:25:27,210
can't be happening what am I actually

1834
01:25:32,810 --> 01:25:30,900
looking at and what I eventually this is

1835
01:25:36,710 --> 01:25:32,820
what I still tell myself and I think

1836
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:36,720
it's probably what I saw I was living

1837
01:25:42,740 --> 01:25:38,730
then and clean near Cleveland Ohio right

1838
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:42,750
and my job was was near by and not too

1839
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:45,120
far away maybe a half an hour away by

1840
01:25:50,510 --> 01:25:47,130
car was Akron Ohio or the Goodyear blimp

1841
01:25:52,610 --> 01:25:50,520
comes from and I just I still think it

1842
01:25:54,950 --> 01:25:52,620
was probably I was seeing some weird

1843
01:25:57,440 --> 01:25:54,960
light arrangement on you know a

1844
01:25:59,300 --> 01:25:57,450
dirigible on a blimp there possibly the

1845
01:26:02,570 --> 01:25:59,310
Goodyear plan because you know it comes

1846
01:26:05,750 --> 01:26:02,580
out of Akron what's this like moving

1847
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:05,760
lights or was it a steady light is it

1848
01:26:13,340 --> 01:26:08,370
these were moving and it was a rainy

1849
01:26:14,780 --> 01:26:13,350
night so I you know it was right there

1850
01:26:17,570 --> 01:26:14,790
there was some confusion because of the

1851
01:26:19,310 --> 01:26:17,580
rainy night you can't see I mean you

1852
01:26:20,930 --> 01:26:19,320
don't know if a jet aircraft flew over

1853
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:20,940
you would know what it was get you you

1854
01:26:25,940 --> 01:26:23,730
would hear it yeah I don't recall

1855
01:26:28,700 --> 01:26:25,950
hearing any sound at all but I did see

1856
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:28,710
lights and that really threw me and it

1857
01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:31,440
also put a bolt of frighten them you

1858
01:26:35,770 --> 01:26:33,120
because I'm thinking like right away my

1859
01:26:39,530 --> 01:26:35,780
emotions are going toward holy you know

1860
01:26:41,690 --> 01:26:39,540
Shi T I'm looking at an unidentified

1861
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:41,700
flying object I have to be because I

1862
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:43,290
couldn't hear it and then it slowly came

1863
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:45,930
to me it's got to be it original but the

1864
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:48,570
thing is if you've seen a blimp fly over

1865
01:26:53,750 --> 01:26:51,930
you you can hear that engine it sounds

1866
01:26:55,220 --> 01:26:53,760
like a lawnmower that's right and in

1867
01:26:59,630 --> 01:26:55,230
this case I didn't really hear anything

1868
01:27:01,730 --> 01:26:59,640
I just saw white lights in that pattern

1869
01:27:03,590 --> 01:27:01,740
and I wasn't where the place I was

1870
01:27:06,049 --> 01:27:03,600
working yeah I was like the night

1871
01:27:07,639 --> 01:27:06,059
computer operator knew

1872
01:27:09,799 --> 01:27:07,649
doing the nightly backup there was no

1873
01:27:12,679 --> 01:27:09,809
noise you know like traffic noise or

1874
01:27:14,299 --> 01:27:12,689
anything to to cover it up so I you know

1875
01:27:15,889 --> 01:27:14,309
that was a genuine unknown to me and I

1876
01:27:17,869 --> 01:27:15,899
don't really know what I saw I'm just

1877
01:27:20,449 --> 01:27:17,879
I'm just thinking it almost had to be

1878
01:27:23,389 --> 01:27:20,459
like you know some sort of a dirigible

1879
01:27:25,699 --> 01:27:23,399
or you know the unspeakable wall maybe

1880
01:27:28,790 --> 01:27:25,709
it was an actual you know

1881
01:27:31,099 --> 01:27:28,800
extraterrestrial craft or for a while I

1882
01:27:33,979 --> 01:27:31,109
was leaning toward the classified

1883
01:27:36,129 --> 01:27:33,989
military craft but they seemed to be you

1884
01:27:38,359 --> 01:27:36,139
know why would they test something

1885
01:27:41,559 --> 01:27:38,369
potentially really dangerous over a

1886
01:27:45,049 --> 01:27:41,569
populated area because they're liable

1887
01:27:46,879 --> 01:27:45,059
right now what what type of rainy night

1888
01:27:50,959 --> 01:27:46,889
was it was it heavy rain was a light

1889
01:27:54,199 --> 01:27:50,969
rain it was it was drizzly it was it was

1890
01:27:56,389 --> 01:27:54,209
a like how humid I think it was like Joe

1891
01:27:59,509 --> 01:27:56,399
I think it was July it was a humid rainy

1892
01:28:01,929 --> 01:27:59,519
night the reason I bring that up is you

1893
01:28:05,299 --> 01:28:01,939
know I may be totally off on this but I

1894
01:28:07,339 --> 01:28:05,309
would think that usually the blimp lies

1895
01:28:09,829 --> 01:28:07,349
around in neither sporting events or

1896
01:28:12,139 --> 01:28:09,839
events where there's a chance of a lot

1897
01:28:14,629 --> 01:28:12,149
of people seeing you know advertising or

1898
01:28:17,839 --> 01:28:14,639
whatever it is flights are showing and

1899
01:28:19,369 --> 01:28:17,849
so I was thinking on a rainy night you

1900
01:28:20,989 --> 01:28:19,379
know it's less of a chance they do you

1901
01:28:24,799 --> 01:28:20,999
actually see something like a blimp out

1902
01:28:27,829 --> 01:28:24,809
there yeah I couldn't agree more and I

1903
01:28:30,199 --> 01:28:27,839
also know that this is another like a

1904
01:28:31,699 --> 01:28:30,209
kind of an enthusiast enthusiasm of mine

1905
01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:31,709
since a kid I loved seeing blimps

1906
01:28:36,139 --> 01:28:33,449
because we were always seeing them

1907
01:28:38,059 --> 01:28:36,149
flying over our town being so near Akron

1908
01:28:40,579 --> 01:28:38,069
because they were flying from from

1909
01:28:42,169 --> 01:28:40,589
Goodyear up to the Cleveland stadium for

1910
01:28:44,989 --> 01:28:42,179
baseball games and stuff and football

1911
01:28:47,989 --> 01:28:44,999
games mm-hmm for cup for coverage you

1912
01:28:49,429 --> 01:28:47,999
know camera coverage and one time one

1913
01:28:51,020 --> 01:28:49,439
actually there were there was an

1914
01:28:53,299 --> 01:28:51,030
abandoned airfield across the street

1915
01:28:54,799 --> 01:28:53,309
from where I grew up one one actually

1916
01:28:56,839 --> 01:28:54,809
came down there one day and we all ran

1917
01:28:58,729 --> 01:28:56,849
over there and it was like you know when

1918
01:29:00,319 --> 01:28:58,739
you're when you're 10 or 11 year old kid

1919
01:29:03,169 --> 01:29:00,329
you're like oh my god I can't believe

1920
01:29:04,549 --> 01:29:03,179
this is great and they had apparently

1921
01:29:06,799 --> 01:29:04,559
they had some kind of a problem they had

1922
01:29:10,339 --> 01:29:06,809
to land and it wasn't there long but we

1923
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:10,349
were all over there and so seeing that

1924
01:29:14,179 --> 01:29:12,719
on a rainy night yeah was not that

1925
01:29:18,409 --> 01:29:14,189
whatever it was was not there to cover

1926
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:18,419
of sports thing right now that's yeah

1927
01:29:21,919 --> 01:29:19,170
that's

1928
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:21,929
sure I it's funny I was talking just

1929
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:23,489
several years ago I was walking with my

1930
01:29:28,430 --> 01:29:26,610
son and in Boston and I saw this blimp

1931
01:29:29,689 --> 01:29:28,440
you know coming over the trees and I

1932
01:29:32,419 --> 01:29:29,699
thought I'm gonna get a picture of this

1933
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:32,429
and the you know a lot of people will

1934
01:29:39,290 --> 01:29:35,760
talk about well why didn't you get that

1935
01:29:41,180 --> 01:29:39,300
picture of the UFO you know everyone's

1936
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:41,190
walking around with the iPhone and

1937
01:29:47,090 --> 01:29:44,610
camera so I I can't believe that as slow

1938
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:47,100
as a blimp goes by the time I got my

1939
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:52,290
camera ready it was going blind

1940
01:29:55,900 --> 01:29:54,449
I didn't have a chance to take a picture

1941
01:29:59,360 --> 01:29:55,910
of the blimp

1942
01:30:01,250 --> 01:29:59,370
that's an awesome sighted thing like

1943
01:30:01,669 --> 01:30:01,260
whoa okay everybody has cameras bla bla

1944
01:30:03,470 --> 01:30:01,679
bla

1945
01:30:06,650 --> 01:30:03,480
why are we not seeing better pictures

1946
01:30:08,300 --> 01:30:06,660
well it's a good question why and then

1947
01:30:10,430 --> 01:30:08,310
like you just proved it well okay

1948
01:30:12,500 --> 01:30:10,440
there's a difference between saying okay

1949
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:12,510
I'm gonna always have my phone on me and

1950
01:30:16,100 --> 01:30:14,250
I'm gonna be ready when I see see

1951
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:16,110
something I can't describe right and

1952
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:18,170
then when you go to the actual motions

1953
01:30:22,220 --> 01:30:20,730
it's not going to be like you think or

1954
01:30:24,770 --> 01:30:22,230
like it's like you're watching a movie

1955
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:24,780
you're going to be a human being looking

1956
01:30:28,490 --> 01:30:26,130
at something that you're not sure what

1957
01:30:29,959 --> 01:30:28,500
it is is it a terrorist thing is it

1958
01:30:35,780 --> 01:30:29,969
extraterrestrial you're gonna be feeling

1959
01:30:38,180 --> 01:30:35,790
some some some disease yeah I mentioned

1960
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:38,190
this too before when I I actually had a

1961
01:30:42,020 --> 01:30:40,410
UFO sighting that kind of got me

1962
01:30:43,459 --> 01:30:42,030
interested in this top the world did

1963
01:30:45,979 --> 01:30:43,469
give me interest in this topic but

1964
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:45,989
anyway I don't know if I would have I

1965
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:48,210
didn't have my phone on me at the time

1966
01:30:52,430 --> 01:30:50,370
or anything like that but I don't think

1967
01:30:54,709 --> 01:30:52,440
I would have even thought to take a

1968
01:30:57,709 --> 01:30:54,719
picture because I was just so lost in

1969
01:30:59,720 --> 01:30:57,719
the moment and so baffled why there was

1970
01:31:02,479 --> 01:30:59,730
again there was no noise like you talked

1971
01:31:03,979 --> 01:31:02,489
about and I was totally baffled like how

1972
01:31:08,180 --> 01:31:03,989
can something move without making any

1973
01:31:10,100 --> 01:31:08,190
noise you know I mean that just okay I

1974
01:31:11,740 --> 01:31:10,110
would have probably not taken a picture

1975
01:31:15,169 --> 01:31:11,750
of edited cameras what I'm getting at

1976
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:15,179
and yeah and you know what in in view of

1977
01:31:19,100 --> 01:31:17,730
that I've gone as far as okay like a

1978
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:19,110
salmon where there's a jet aircraft

1979
01:31:23,270 --> 01:31:21,090
crossing over and it's one of those it's

1980
01:31:25,970 --> 01:31:23,280
really really high up like five or six

1981
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:25,980
miles you know thirty or forty thousand

1982
01:31:30,290 --> 01:31:28,050
feet I'll stand there and look at it and

1983
01:31:31,700 --> 01:31:30,300
I won't hear anything but then you do

1984
01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:31,710
you do eventually hear it if you're

1985
01:31:34,700 --> 01:31:32,610
paying attention

1986
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:34,710
across this year once the sound reaches

1987
01:31:39,050 --> 01:31:36,510
you you do hear it

1988
01:31:42,410 --> 01:31:39,060
it's quiet but but something of that

1989
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:42,420
size you know imagine taking that down

1990
01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:45,449
you know tens of thousands of feet you'd

1991
01:31:52,370 --> 01:31:49,290
really hear it and in fact you know the

1992
01:31:53,810 --> 01:31:52,380
thing that I saw you know was it

1993
01:31:55,490 --> 01:31:53,820
couldn't have been more than several

1994
01:31:58,040 --> 01:31:55,500
hundred feet off the ground and I heard

1995
01:32:00,020 --> 01:31:58,050
nothing and now I have to say that I was

1996
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:00,030
really frightened by it I still don't

1997
01:32:02,959 --> 01:32:01,770
know what it was but I didn't jump to

1998
01:32:07,729 --> 01:32:02,969
you know

1999
01:32:10,430 --> 01:32:07,739
like we said earlier I can't possibly

2000
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:10,440
you know be intellectually honest and

2001
01:32:14,959 --> 01:32:13,650
say no it could never be you know

2002
01:32:17,240 --> 01:32:14,969
extraterrestrial because it could have

2003
01:32:19,100 --> 01:32:17,250
been I you know on this personally I'm

2004
01:32:22,490 --> 01:32:19,110
thinking well no it wasn't it's but I

2005
01:32:25,959 --> 01:32:22,500
don't know what it was right right have

2006
01:32:30,410 --> 01:32:25,969
you ever looked into cases like the

2007
01:32:32,060 --> 01:32:30,420
Rendlesham forest any of that oh yeah

2008
01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:32,070
yeah that's another interesting thing

2009
01:32:37,729 --> 01:32:35,489
that you know it's often you know dumped

2010
01:32:39,260 --> 01:32:37,739
on for all that was psychological ops

2011
01:32:41,300 --> 01:32:39,270
people were being tested and calibrated

2012
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:41,310
in you know when you read all the

2013
01:32:45,410 --> 01:32:43,530
viewpoints and just to be clear I've

2014
01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:45,420
probably read everything they can be

2015
01:32:49,399 --> 01:32:47,250
about that about Randall story and

2016
01:32:50,899 --> 01:32:49,409
you're getting this you know some of the

2017
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:50,909
people who were actually there saying I

2018
01:32:54,919 --> 01:32:53,010
think it was I think it was a test and

2019
01:32:57,500 --> 01:32:54,929
then other people other soldiers saying

2020
01:33:00,229 --> 01:32:57,510
no no I I was in that forest and you

2021
01:33:03,770 --> 01:33:00,239
know tears that I saw and it wasn't a it

2022
01:33:05,990 --> 01:33:03,780
wasn't a lighthouse I saw an actual you

2023
01:33:07,879 --> 01:33:06,000
know vehicle on the ground and then you

2024
01:33:12,620 --> 01:33:07,889
know they're describing the weird light

2025
01:33:14,629 --> 01:33:12,630
light effects you know I all I can say

2026
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:14,639
about that case is it's fascinating and

2027
01:33:20,330 --> 01:33:17,610
it's it strikes me as really unusual at

2028
01:33:23,149 --> 01:33:20,340
that took place I was it was actually on

2029
01:33:26,570 --> 01:33:23,159
the base are very near it that that's

2030
01:33:34,399 --> 01:33:26,580
suspicious to me and it still is right

2031
01:33:37,100 --> 01:33:34,409
right outside of left at Eastgate but

2032
01:33:39,979 --> 01:33:37,110
it's got that that is a puzzling one and

2033
01:33:44,450 --> 01:33:39,989
you know when I've talked personally to

2034
01:33:46,940 --> 01:33:44,460
you know a few people that was involved

2035
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:46,950
in that and you know Charles halt

2036
01:33:54,050 --> 01:33:50,610
his story about the thing looking like

2037
01:33:57,740 --> 01:33:54,060
an eyeball that's the you know like

2038
01:33:59,920 --> 01:33:57,750
bouncing between the trees you know

2039
01:34:01,940 --> 01:33:59,930
going along and like molten lava

2040
01:34:03,950 --> 01:34:01,950
dripping from it that's what it looked

2041
01:34:06,590 --> 01:34:03,960
like by the way they were never able to

2042
01:34:08,930 --> 01:34:06,600
find any of that like trace evidences of

2043
01:34:12,140 --> 01:34:08,940
that and then at bursting into five

2044
01:34:15,590 --> 01:34:12,150
lights and you know that disappearing

2045
01:34:17,990 --> 01:34:15,600
that's kind of like a prismatic you know

2046
01:34:20,330 --> 01:34:18,000
like he's kind of like a bursting like

2047
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:20,340
wow it's too bad no one to our now has

2048
01:34:25,580 --> 01:34:22,170
caught that on any kind of storm yeah

2049
01:34:29,300 --> 01:34:25,590
and that's a I told him an encounter of

2050
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:29,310
a friend of mine who had I was in the

2051
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:31,290
you know in the fine arts and antiques

2052
01:34:38,180 --> 01:34:34,410
business this gentleman is actually on

2053
01:34:40,250 --> 01:34:38,190
the Antiques Roadshow on almost all them

2054
01:34:42,830 --> 01:34:40,260
and he told me of an encounter he had

2055
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:42,840
were an object looked like a box and

2056
01:34:50,090 --> 01:34:46,170
then it burst into five lights right in

2057
01:34:51,890 --> 01:34:50,100
front of his eyes you know I mean his

2058
01:34:55,450 --> 01:34:51,900
reaction to that though was there's no

2059
01:34:57,830 --> 01:34:55,460
big deal like didn't change his life any

2060
01:34:59,480 --> 01:34:57,840
you know and those are the most that's

2061
01:35:01,850 --> 01:34:59,490
the most those are the most interesting

2062
01:35:04,010 --> 01:35:01,860
sort of you know witnesses for lack of a

2063
01:35:05,810 --> 01:35:04,020
better word hmm where it's just scribed

2064
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:05,820
because you're probably getting an

2065
01:35:08,810 --> 01:35:07,530
accurate description it's the person

2066
01:35:10,550 --> 01:35:08,820
isn't freaking out and they weren't

2067
01:35:12,830 --> 01:35:10,560
freaked out they're probably describing

2068
01:35:14,450 --> 01:35:12,840
what they actually saw and that that's

2069
01:35:16,550 --> 01:35:14,460
that's what still puzzles me it's like

2070
01:35:18,620 --> 01:35:16,560
well you don't know what it what it was

2071
01:35:22,340 --> 01:35:18,630
and I guess that's what keeps me going

2072
01:35:24,530 --> 01:35:22,350
is this intense curiosity even even

2073
01:35:27,100 --> 01:35:24,540
though I'm not a believer I just want to

2074
01:35:29,810 --> 01:35:27,110
know what's going on right right and

2075
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:29,820
yeah just to follow up on that a

2076
01:35:36,710 --> 01:35:33,210
military jet was flying toward that when

2077
01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:36,720
it had burst into lights to you know

2078
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:38,730
really it had a lot of things going for

2079
01:35:43,850 --> 01:35:41,250
it it was at Amherst College back in the

2080
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:43,860
early 1980s when that happened with a

2081
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:47,010
bunch of witnesses it was right there at

2082
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:51,930
the college itself so yeah anyway it is

2083
01:35:59,780 --> 01:35:55,650
it keeps me going - and I I like the

2084
01:36:01,240 --> 01:35:59,790
fact that you talk about the word belief

2085
01:36:03,370 --> 01:36:01,250
because

2086
01:36:06,700 --> 01:36:03,380
a lot of people talk about that word

2087
01:36:08,530 --> 01:36:06,710
when it comes to you know UFOs the

2088
01:36:11,140 --> 01:36:08,540
thoughts and beliefs and things like

2089
01:36:16,180 --> 01:36:11,150
that they do it's almost a default

2090
01:36:17,530 --> 01:36:16,190
reaction yeah yeah I mean I've had I

2091
01:36:19,689 --> 01:36:17,540
don't know if this has happened to you

2092
01:36:20,979 --> 01:36:19,699
and in the public talking to someone but

2093
01:36:23,470 --> 01:36:20,989
they'll say something along the lines

2094
01:36:25,299 --> 01:36:23,480
were so you actually believe in UFOs and

2095
01:36:27,419 --> 01:36:25,309
you know what what do you say when

2096
01:36:30,609 --> 01:36:27,429
someone actually says that that to you

2097
01:36:32,169 --> 01:36:30,619
well why I say pretty much what what we

2098
01:36:35,979 --> 01:36:32,179
talked about earlier like no I don't

2099
01:36:38,109 --> 01:36:35,989
believe in UFOs but I do accept but are

2100
01:36:39,970 --> 01:36:38,119
anomalous things in the skies and we're

2101
01:36:42,700 --> 01:36:39,980
not sure what they are but we probably

2102
01:36:44,260 --> 01:36:42,710
can find out if we do the work but that

2103
01:36:47,290 --> 01:36:44,270
doesn't explain it doesn't explain away

2104
01:36:48,970 --> 01:36:47,300
everything because you know the thing is

2105
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:48,980
and this is something I mentioned in the

2106
01:36:52,780 --> 01:36:51,290
forthcoming book old world is that we're

2107
01:36:54,310 --> 01:36:52,790
trapped in our own you know we're

2108
01:36:56,169 --> 01:36:54,320
trapped in our bodies we're trapped in a

2109
01:36:59,020 --> 01:36:56,179
certain viewpoint and we can't get out

2110
01:37:01,890 --> 01:36:59,030
of it so it's gonna color everything we

2111
01:37:05,260 --> 01:37:01,900
see including UFOs and so-called ghosts

2112
01:37:06,970 --> 01:37:05,270
and that's I mean I hope I'm not that

2113
01:37:10,180 --> 01:37:06,980
long-winded when I talk to people

2114
01:37:12,069 --> 01:37:10,190
because I do get asked well you believe

2115
01:37:13,629 --> 01:37:12,079
in UFOs I'm like well it's it's

2116
01:37:14,950 --> 01:37:13,639
undeniable people see stuff and they

2117
01:37:16,419 --> 01:37:14,960
don't know what it is and that's just

2118
01:37:18,609 --> 01:37:16,429
that's as far as I go

2119
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:18,619
so you have to do the work you have to

2120
01:37:24,729 --> 01:37:23,210
be you know scientific about it right

2121
01:37:29,620 --> 01:37:24,739
right

2122
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:29,630
and speaking of science science runs

2123
01:37:34,350 --> 01:37:32,090
from this topic for the most part do you

2124
01:37:37,030 --> 01:37:34,360
think that'll ever change

2125
01:37:39,069 --> 01:37:37,040
hey you know what it's not useful and

2126
01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:39,079
this was pointed out decades ago that

2127
01:37:44,620 --> 01:37:42,290
attitude is not useful and it's almost

2128
01:37:46,870 --> 01:37:44,630
as though like you know like the more

2129
01:37:49,030 --> 01:37:46,880
absurd things that seem to happen like

2130
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:49,040
like when people used to report UFO

2131
01:37:53,830 --> 01:37:51,650
entities you know bizarre-looking

2132
01:37:55,740 --> 01:37:53,840
creatures like wrapped in plastic and

2133
01:37:58,959 --> 01:37:55,750
they came right out of science fiction

2134
01:38:01,839 --> 01:37:58,969
it's almost as though the the absurdity

2135
01:38:04,270 --> 01:38:01,849
of that is used against against people

2136
01:38:06,220 --> 01:38:04,280
reporting things and because because

2137
01:38:09,459 --> 01:38:06,230
then you can be discredited you like you

2138
01:38:11,169 --> 01:38:09,469
saw what I like the Rendlesham you see

2139
01:38:13,060 --> 01:38:11,179
you saw what that makes no sense that's

2140
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:13,070
not how reality works but the thing is

2141
01:38:18,700 --> 01:38:15,370
we don't know our reality

2142
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:18,710
yeah exactly exactly that's very true

2143
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:21,890
yeah I've said a number of times you

2144
01:38:26,680 --> 01:38:23,890
know I've had a number of people from

2145
01:38:30,810 --> 01:38:26,690
the Rendlesham forest on this show over

2146
01:38:34,810 --> 01:38:30,820
the years it's the most convoluted case

2147
01:38:37,780 --> 01:38:34,820
out there when it when it cut it it

2148
01:38:40,510 --> 01:38:37,790
really is and it comes to you know that

2149
01:38:45,030 --> 01:38:40,520
what different people's point of view I

2150
01:38:47,530 --> 01:38:45,040
mean there's you know where John burrows

2151
01:38:52,510 --> 01:38:47,540
thinks he had missing time but he's not

2152
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:52,520
sure and someone saw something that

2153
01:38:59,939 --> 01:38:56,210
looked like an entity entity you know

2154
01:39:02,380 --> 01:38:59,949
there's all all that and there were

2155
01:39:05,770 --> 01:39:02,390
scattered entity reports I forgot about

2156
01:39:08,470 --> 01:39:05,780
that yeah and then the beams going down

2157
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:08,480
to the weapon weapons most likely

2158
01:39:12,100 --> 01:39:10,850
nuclear weapons I guess it's pretty well

2159
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:12,110
known there were nuclear weapons I

2160
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:14,810
remember asking Charles halt that and he

2161
01:39:21,850 --> 01:39:16,370
got offended that I would ask him to a

2162
01:39:23,620 --> 01:39:21,860
classified question I asked you Martin

2163
01:39:27,580 --> 01:39:23,630
is that still archived the Hulk

2164
01:39:34,930 --> 01:39:27,590
interview oh yes oh yeah yeah yeah he's

2165
01:39:37,660 --> 01:39:34,940
been on a few times yeah no that's I

2166
01:39:42,010 --> 01:39:37,670
think the best part of that case is the

2167
01:39:43,270 --> 01:39:42,020
audio recording that he had running had

2168
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:43,280
the recorder running the whole time

2169
01:39:49,300 --> 01:39:44,890
there and anybody can find that on

2170
01:39:51,010 --> 01:39:49,310
YouTube he said that he was really

2171
01:39:57,100 --> 01:39:51,020
surprised when that actually came out

2172
01:39:59,770 --> 01:39:57,110
you know many years ago he had four yeah

2173
01:40:01,600 --> 01:39:59,780
it basically says it's coming at us or

2174
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:01,610
he says something he's coming at us or

2175
01:40:05,260 --> 01:40:03,530
something like that and then talks about

2176
01:40:08,380 --> 01:40:05,270
when the light shoots down right by his

2177
01:40:11,470 --> 01:40:08,390
feet and he's described that light is

2178
01:40:14,350 --> 01:40:11,480
not like a regular beat a regular beam

2179
01:40:16,689 --> 01:40:14,360
of light it's like a almost like a tube

2180
01:40:19,810 --> 01:40:16,699
of light within itself or something it's

2181
01:40:21,459 --> 01:40:19,820
pretty strange and I've heard that other

2182
01:40:22,959 --> 01:40:21,469
people have talked about beams of light

2183
01:40:25,990 --> 01:40:22,969
that are just totally different than a

2184
01:40:27,669 --> 01:40:26,000
normal light beam I've heard that I've

2185
01:40:28,419 --> 01:40:27,679
heard that too like word so it's almost

2186
01:40:31,859 --> 01:40:28,429
it's more

2187
01:40:36,580 --> 01:40:31,869
like a plasma then I've done a beam

2188
01:40:39,279 --> 01:40:36,590
particle beam right yeah that's all it's

2189
01:40:40,870 --> 01:40:39,289
all it's all really interesting then

2190
01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:40,880
again like you just said a few minutes

2191
01:40:46,779 --> 01:40:43,130
ago it keeps me going you know the whole

2192
01:40:51,149 --> 01:40:46,789
work we just passed our eighth year

2193
01:40:54,219 --> 01:40:51,159
anniversary a few weeks ago and mm-hmm

2194
01:40:56,259 --> 01:40:54,229
it's just I can't believe it's been that

2195
01:40:59,949 --> 01:40:56,269
long I've been doing this show but it's

2196
01:41:02,080 --> 01:40:59,959
a just fascinating to just to hear

2197
01:41:04,870 --> 01:41:02,090
different things that have happened that

2198
01:41:07,529 --> 01:41:04,880
are unexplained and whether they ever

2199
01:41:10,899 --> 01:41:07,539
will be explained or not I have no idea

2200
01:41:13,239 --> 01:41:10,909
well I certainly don't but I think what

2201
01:41:15,819 --> 01:41:13,249
can explain the popularity of your of

2202
01:41:18,370 --> 01:41:15,829
podcast UFO is that you're you do give

2203
01:41:20,259 --> 01:41:18,380
people you're going across a spectrum of

2204
01:41:22,049 --> 01:41:20,269
people you're not just you know you're

2205
01:41:23,949 --> 01:41:22,059
not waiting it down on one side where

2206
01:41:25,629 --> 01:41:23,959
you know for instance you're not

2207
01:41:27,540 --> 01:41:25,639
constantly saying oh this can't be real

2208
01:41:31,479 --> 01:41:27,550
this can't be real and you're also not

2209
01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:31,489
you know too hot on yeah you're not

2210
01:41:35,259 --> 01:41:33,650
talking up too much the whole belief

2211
01:41:38,049 --> 01:41:35,269
thing like you must believe in this

2212
01:41:41,410 --> 01:41:38,059
you're genuinely exploring and curious

2213
01:41:44,770 --> 01:41:41,420
about it yeah I would say thank you and

2214
01:41:46,569 --> 01:41:44,780
that's right I am going to offer one

2215
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:46,579
more time with that poor guy that keeps

2216
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:48,320
trying to call and his calls and go

2217
01:41:57,850 --> 01:41:51,650
through get that guy in there yeah try

2218
01:42:04,109 --> 01:41:57,860
calling again a 603 967 403 oh I just

2219
01:42:10,299 --> 01:42:04,119
got a text from my good friend Alejandro

2220
01:42:11,890 --> 01:42:10,309
and I don't know if it has to do with

2221
01:42:16,330 --> 01:42:11,900
the show or not I'll read it in a minute

2222
01:42:18,459 --> 01:42:16,340
but anyway that line is open feel free

2223
01:42:25,569 --> 01:42:18,469
to call in and you will get yourself a

2224
01:42:28,929 --> 01:42:25,579
free t-shirt 603 967 403 oh and I'm also

2225
01:42:30,339 --> 01:42:28,939
going to ask if anyone wants to post any

2226
01:42:35,109 --> 01:42:30,349
questions up on the chat room we've got

2227
01:42:38,529 --> 01:42:35,119
about five more minutes okay

2228
01:42:40,449 --> 01:42:38,539
Oh Alejandro was saying is that he said

2229
01:42:42,180 --> 01:42:40,459
for me to say bah humbug to everyone but

2230
01:42:45,490 --> 01:42:42,190
I didn't say that

2231
01:42:46,899 --> 01:42:45,500
and he just acts saying when you do your

2232
01:42:48,430 --> 01:42:46,909
shows say hey merry Christmas to

2233
01:42:49,770 --> 01:42:48,440
everyone so Alejandro says Merry

2234
01:42:52,090 --> 01:42:49,780
Christmas to everyone out there

2235
01:42:53,890 --> 01:42:52,100
Alejandro Rojas has been on this show

2236
01:42:56,140 --> 01:42:53,900
for I don't know five or six years

2237
01:43:00,130 --> 01:42:56,150
something like four four or five years

2238
01:43:02,740 --> 01:43:00,140
anyway doing the UFO updates and he's

2239
01:43:06,130 --> 01:43:02,750
had a few changes in his life and has

2240
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:06,140
been moving and hasn't been on for about

2241
01:43:10,479 --> 01:43:08,090
a month now so we hope we hope to get

2242
01:43:11,919 --> 01:43:10,489
him back I'm not sure if Alejandro

2243
01:43:14,169 --> 01:43:11,929
Alejandro doesn't come back what I'm

2244
01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:14,179
going to do okay same caller is trying

2245
01:43:20,490 --> 01:43:16,330
again cross your fingers

2246
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:20,500
caller Brock can you hear us caller

2247
01:43:29,290 --> 01:43:25,010
caller I have no idea why that's not

2248
01:43:31,870 --> 01:43:29,300
working I think what I'm gonna do I'm

2249
01:43:37,149 --> 01:43:31,880
gonna see if I can catch his number I'm

2250
01:43:40,570 --> 01:43:37,159
gonna try to see if I call him and I'm

2251
01:43:42,070 --> 01:43:40,580
not sure what he's calling them but I

2252
01:43:44,770 --> 01:43:42,080
know it's the same number trying to call

2253
01:43:47,169 --> 01:43:44,780
and anyway I don't want to waste airtime

2254
01:43:50,500 --> 01:43:47,179
on that I will probably just try to call

2255
01:43:54,010 --> 01:43:50,510
him after the show and give him that

2256
01:43:55,450 --> 01:43:54,020
t-shirt I will tell you caller why don't

2257
01:43:56,860 --> 01:43:55,460
you do this I could see your number

2258
01:43:59,380 --> 01:43:56,870
briefly I see that you're calling from

2259
01:44:03,010 --> 01:43:59,390
New York it looks like a New York City

2260
01:44:07,090 --> 01:44:03,020
number give me an email at Martin at

2261
01:44:08,439 --> 01:44:07,100
podcast UFO comm and I will set you up

2262
01:44:10,660 --> 01:44:08,449
for that t-shirt hopefully you had a

2263
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:10,670
really good question for our guests I

2264
01:44:17,709 --> 01:44:15,170
think I think we're about at the end of

2265
01:44:19,660 --> 01:44:17,719
our show here now when do you expect

2266
01:44:22,990 --> 01:44:19,670
your next book to come out you say it's

2267
01:44:26,260 --> 01:44:23,000
a book in progress right now it's

2268
01:44:29,229 --> 01:44:26,270
looking like summer 2019 uh-huh

2269
01:44:30,550 --> 01:44:29,239
and and the name is that's a working

2270
01:44:35,620 --> 01:44:30,560
title that's going to be the title of

2271
01:44:39,580 --> 01:44:35,630
the book but the full title is cold

2272
01:44:41,919 --> 01:44:39,590
world the horror of the real and by the

2273
01:44:44,860 --> 01:44:41,929
horror of the real and I mean basically

2274
01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:44,870
like excuse me reality stripped down to

2275
01:44:49,830 --> 01:44:47,570
its to its basic structures like like

2276
01:44:53,950 --> 01:44:49,840
seeing things in the actual world and

2277
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:53,960
the way we responded them are it can be

2278
01:44:58,190 --> 01:44:55,530
deeply disturbing

2279
01:44:59,270 --> 01:44:58,200
as disturbing as any UFO saying I guess

2280
01:45:01,100 --> 01:44:59,280
I'm trying I'm trying to show the

2281
01:45:04,700 --> 01:45:01,110
genuine strangeness of the real world in

2282
01:45:07,310 --> 01:45:04,710
this book do you mean looking at look

2283
01:45:10,450 --> 01:45:07,320
okay do you mean also like natural

2284
01:45:14,150 --> 01:45:10,460
phenomenon - or just unexplained things

2285
01:45:16,220 --> 01:45:14,160
yes yes also also natural phenomenon

2286
01:45:19,190 --> 01:45:16,230
mister strangeness of that like thing as

2287
01:45:21,500 --> 01:45:19,200
things like tornadoes and you know

2288
01:45:24,140 --> 01:45:21,510
that's that's an entire topic on zone

2289
01:45:25,250 --> 01:45:24,150
right there storms and how strange some

2290
01:45:29,180 --> 01:45:25,260
of the strange things that can happen

2291
01:45:32,420 --> 01:45:29,190
during a storm right yeah no there's

2292
01:45:35,590 --> 01:45:32,430
like earthquake lights and you know

2293
01:45:41,030 --> 01:45:35,600
there's just all kinds of very strange

2294
01:45:42,710 --> 01:45:41,040
things that I have that people just

2295
01:45:44,540 --> 01:45:42,720
don't have any idea what they are I mean

2296
01:45:48,830 --> 01:45:44,550
they were saying UFOs but they're

2297
01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:48,840
they're just basically probably a

2298
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:52,290
natural phenomenon right I think Michael

2299
01:45:57,310 --> 01:45:53,610
first thing or I think wrote a book

2300
01:46:01,490 --> 01:45:57,320
about those earthquake lights yeah

2301
01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:01,500
Canadian I think he is right right

2302
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:04,050
really interesting all that all right

2303
01:46:09,260 --> 01:46:06,090
well excellent well thanks so much bill

2304
01:46:11,900 --> 01:46:09,270
it's been a real pleasure you're welcome

2305
01:46:14,240 --> 01:46:11,910
it has been a pleasure yeah we finally

2306
01:46:17,120 --> 01:46:14,250
got to speak that's right all right and

2307
01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:17,130
you have yourself a nice Christmas you

2308
01:46:23,510 --> 01:46:19,170
too thank you very much all right good

2309
01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:23,520
night now great okay everyone well

2310
01:46:28,940 --> 01:46:27,290
that's it for the show now next week

2311
01:46:31,910 --> 01:46:28,950
it's going to be Monday

2312
01:46:35,780 --> 01:46:31,920
I'm sorry Sunday night because of the

2313
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:35,790
New Year holiday and we are going to

2314
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:41,810
have mark Cushman on and thick Mignogna

2315
01:46:49,340 --> 01:46:45,530
and they are going to be talking about

2316
01:46:54,110 --> 01:46:49,350
basically it has to do with Star Trek

2317
01:46:57,470 --> 01:46:54,120
and Vick is also he plays Captain Kirk

2318
01:47:01,520 --> 01:46:57,480
on the newest Star Trek continues he's

2319
01:47:03,770 --> 01:47:01,530
going to be also on the show together so

2320
01:47:06,560 --> 01:47:03,780
that should be interesting and if you

2321
01:47:08,880 --> 01:47:06,570
want to check out podcast UFO comm you

2322
01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:08,890
can see the

2323
01:47:15,660 --> 01:47:11,970
membership that the membership you can

2324
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:15,670
listen to the full to our shows for free

2325
01:47:23,070 --> 01:47:20,050
and your media player or login to listen

2326
01:47:26,940 --> 01:47:23,080
that way as well you can also support us

2327
01:47:28,950 --> 01:47:26,950
on patreon and you can also see we have

2328
01:47:33,030 --> 01:47:28,960
t-shirts on all kinds of things with a

2329
01:47:36,360 --> 01:47:33,040
new podcast UFO logo graphic on that

2330
01:47:39,930 --> 01:47:36,370
nicely done by Diane cash out in Oregon

2331
01:47:45,090 --> 01:47:39,940
and I think that's about it don't forget

2332
01:47:49,110 --> 01:47:45,100
to check out our Facebook page it's

2333
01:47:50,940 --> 01:47:49,120
podcast UFO live shows over at Facebook

2334
01:47:53,460 --> 01:47:50,950
so go ahead and check that out we have

2335
01:47:55,980 --> 01:47:53,470
shows I mean up we have news up there

2336
01:47:57,360 --> 01:47:55,990
every day posted by Peggy and I want to

2337
01:48:00,180 --> 01:47:57,370
thank everyone it helps out with the

2338
01:48:03,030 --> 01:48:00,190
show and that includes Evan that

2339
01:48:06,360 --> 01:48:03,040
includes Peggy Keith over at the Dark

2340
01:48:09,270 --> 01:48:06,370
Matter digital network race over at kgr

2341
01:48:09,900 --> 01:48:09,280
a radio alejandro hopefully he'll come

2342
01:48:12,150 --> 01:48:09,910
back

2343
01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:12,160
if not we'll figure something out for

2344
01:48:18,660 --> 01:48:16,690
the news coming up eventually and I do

2345
01:48:21,480 --> 01:48:18,670
want to thank you once again and Merry

2346
01:48:24,270 --> 01:48:21,490
Christmas to all those who celebrate and

2347
01:48:26,370 --> 01:48:24,280
remember if you're keeping your eyes to

2348
01:48:29,220 --> 01:48:26,380
the sky you may just see Santa but

2349
01:48:31,410 --> 01:48:29,230
anyway up ends with his reindeer up

2350
01:48:33,950 --> 01:48:31,420
there but anyway keep your eyes to the